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YouTubemichaelcoyote wrote >>
Manatee wrote >>
Large monocultures of plants-- including soy-- are just as bad for the environmentOnce again you hit the nail on the head..
doubleplus 1
and not a very secure food supply (See potato blight)
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Dining
Who on CU is a vegetarian?
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Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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Posted 3 years ago # -
Corey A
Clintonville
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Manatee wrote >>
Large monocultures of plants-- including soy-- are just as bad for the environment, and FYI, lots and lots and lots of animals are killed when plants are harvested this way, so it's kind of a wash in the end.This seems a really misguided claim, and I doubt you'd find any research backing it. If you want to really understand how food production works in this country, read Michael Pollan's "The Omnivore's Dilemma."
The fact is that factory farming relies on the same "monocultures of plants" to raise meat animals. Cows have been forced onto a predominantly corn-based diet (which wreaks havoc on their digestive systems) because corn is so cheap to produce.
So if you think about it, creating huge fields of vegetables to feed people AND meat-animals is more devastating to the environment than simply shutting down the factory farms which produce all sorts of toxic run-off and redirecting the veggie food to the people. Animal farms are like a big toxic middle man.
That said, you're right that eating too much of ANYTHING is bad for the body and the earth. But it's easier to eat a well balanced vegetarian diet than a meat based one. After all, vegetarians eat EVERYTHING except meat. Most meat eaters I know think variety means a hotdog today and a burger tomorrow.
I guess my reason for being veggo is that the American diet has gone way off the deep end and I don't want any part of it. Humans surely evolved with a meat based diet, but the meat consumed from the dawn of man kind until the Industrial Revolution was clean, hormone free, and more humanely killed. It was eaten only when it was available, which was often days or weeks apart. Today people have a cognitive disconnect with the meat they consume; it's a packaged product, it's cheap, and it's always available, breakfast, lunch and dinner. They rarely think of the animals that lived and breathed and were confined to slosh around in their own filth, or the trucks that sucked down thousands of miles worth of fossil fuels to transport those disembodied animals in cellophane wrappers to our supermarket or restaurant. None of that is natural. None of that is healthy.
There are a lot of issues to champion in the world, but this one is simple. All it takes is a lifestyle change.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Killing animals with crude blunt weapons hundreds of years ago was humane? Ahhh... "the good ol' days".
Anyway, the type of people who have a disconnect with the meat they consume, generally have a disconnect with everything they consume. Food, clothing, electronics, gasoline, etc. I really don't think it has much to do with any sort of "meat-eater stereotype", which is sort of what it sounds like you're trying to say. Is a vegetarian who eats a bag of doritos automatically a better person than someone who eats locally-raised beef from Bluescreek in Marysville? (Correct answer: Who cares.)
And I'm really not sure why you decided to throw in the bit about fossil fuels carrying packaged meats either. Most fruits and vegetables aren't magically transported via rainbow from the field into your mouth. Except avocados. Delicious green rainbows.
I agree that a lifestyle/diet change is needed for plenty of people in the world. But I think living in moderation and being a bit more aware about what you put in your body does not necessarily require the prohibition of meats.
Posted 3 years ago # -
laChewla
Victorian Village, The Heart Of It All
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So recently I ran into a hurdle with my vegetarian diet.
To preface, I have been meatless for 2 years and found myself considerably more healthy. I have lost weight, toned up, have more energy and also found a few morals that I really stand behind...
Recently I have even found myself starting to eat more in line with a vegan raw diet, only occasionally including small amounts of dairy or egg into my meals.
So I went to the doctor for a blood test and received a phone call this week to say I had a message on my secure info line. The woman on the message says, "Lindsay, doctor looked at your blood tests and says that your cholesterol is up to 'high-average' so try and cut that out of your diet." At first I thought to myself, "REALLY? I hardly eat the stuff!" But after some light online reading, I found articles suggesting that some people have livers that over produce cholesterol in reaction to the lack of animal fat in the diet. I am not sure I buy this. More realistically, I think it's due to my family's history of high cholesterol.
I just want to know how to lower it at this point...I am pretty active, with a healthy vegetarian, mostly low fat, balanced diet. All I can think is to start hitting the gym.
Has anyone experienced this?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Tigertree
771 N. High St.
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Corey Aumiller wrote
Humans surely evolved with a meat based diet, but the meat consumed from the dawn of man kind until the Industrial Revolution was clean, hormone free, and more humanely killed.Yeah, at dawn of man kind those sensitive, well mannered Neanderthals were really concerned with humanly killing the animal. I think you've watched one too many peta propaganda films.
Corey Aumiller wrote
Most meat eaters I know think variety means a hotdog today and a burger tomorrow.
They rarely think of the animals that lived and breathed and were confined to slosh around in their own filth, or the trucks that sucked down thousands of miles worth of fossil fuels to transport those disembodied animals in cellophane wrappers to our supermarket or restaurant.
My reasons (aside from liking meat of course) for not being a vegetarian are pretty similar to my reasons for not riding a bicycle. You guys don't know how to present an argument for your cause without coming off like a morally superior, condescending jackass.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Corey A
Clintonville
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Walker wrote >>
But I think living in moderation and being a bit more aware about what you put in your body does not necessarily require the prohibition of meats.All things in moderation is a good way to go. Primarily my argument is that harvesting veggies is a lot more innocuous than meats, both on our personal health and the health of the planet.
I don't like to perpetuate stereotypes, but the meat-eater arguments in this conversation haven't done much to go outside the box.
As for humane killing of animals, who hunted with blunt objects? That would have been a hungry tribe. I simply mean that slitting a few hundred thousand chicken throats each day on a factory line and throwing them into a boiling vat sometimes alive isn't really humane. Whereas, pulling them from your own coop and taking a hatchet to them is a little better because the ownership of the act is inherent. Emphasis on a LITTLE.
Good discussion, I'm glad it's civil!
Posted 3 years ago # -
thefiercelime
the 4th Dimension
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I was a vegetarian for 10 years. I think I became so annoyed with other vegetarians who made it a politcal/social statement, that I ate meat in defiance. Seriously. Some vegetarians should do a better job of picking their freaking battles.
Once we get Humanity figured out, I'll be happy to join them and go right down the food chain and clean up everything else on the planet, too. Until then, I kind of hope they eat want they want, leave my personal life out of it and take a look at the insane world in which they live in and kindly shut the F&%$ up.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Tigertree
771 N. High St.
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You're so sure of the righteousness of your beliefs that you don't realize that comments like "Most meat eaters I know think variety means a hotdog today and a burger tomorrow" or "They rarely think of the animals that lived and breathed and were confined to slosh around in their own filth, or the trucks that sucked down thousands of miles worth of fossil fuels to transport those disembodied animals in cellophane wrappers to our supermarket or restaurant," are offensive.
You're the only one that isn't being civil.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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I don't think those arguments aren't civil. They're just not exactly fair.
Requiring meat eaters to stop and think at every meal about the life of the animal they are consuming is just as silly as asking vegetarians to stop and think about the period of time the plant went through from seed to growth to harvest at every meal.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Core_Models
Columbus
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Hitler was a vegetarian...
just sayin.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Corey A
Clintonville
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I guess this is why I rarely participate in internet forum discussions. People get overly defensive and say things they wouldn't normally say in a real social setting (myself included).
I only meant to provide some insight from a diferent point of view. I thought I backed up my ideas with thoughtful reasoning. Sorry to offend everyone.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Tigertree
771 N. High St.
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I'd be happy to talk to you in person about it. If you're referring to me I usually (now included) hold back if anything on here on account of my store...
I don't think you should stop participating in internet discussions, just expect return fire. I think it's pretty transparent that I like arguing on here. I didn't mean anything by it.Posted 3 years ago # -
misskitty
Columbus
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I tried to be meat free. I use to have many friends that were vegetarians for political reasons and they felt if was wrong to hurt the animals. I personally think the animals are to be eaten and I don't care about any of the political issues. To hear them bash my meat eating was annoying to say the least.
But I do limit my red meats they make my tummy a bit uneasy. It never use to do that but has started. But all the cute fish, chickens,turkey, and whatever else is fair game. But I do respect people who are vegetarians everyone is entitled to their ideas.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Manatee
The eternal present
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Corey Aumiller wrote >>
Walker wrote >>
But I think living in moderation and being a bit more aware about what you put in your body does not necessarily require the prohibition of meats.All things in moderation is a good way to go. Primarily my argument is that harvesting veggies is a lot more innocuous than meats, both on our personal health and the health of the planet.
I don't like to perpetuate stereotypes, but the meat-eater arguments in this conversation haven't done much to go outside the box.
As for humane killing of animals, who hunted with blunt objects? That would have been a hungry tribe. I simply mean that slitting a few hundred thousand chicken throats each day on a factory line and throwing them into a boiling vat sometimes alive isn't really humane. Whereas, pulling them from your own coop and taking a hatchet to them is a little better because the ownership of the act is inherent. Emphasis on a LITTLE.
Good discussion, I'm glad it's civil!Dude. I was a vegetarian for 10 years, then a vegan for three. My point, had you bothered to read it, was that MONOCULTURES of vegetables kill just as many animals as FACTORY farming.
When I eat meat, I eat it from small farms where I know how the animal is being treated, and farms where their waste isn't shipped away, but used to put back on the soil.
Aside from that, I was reading Michael Pollan about 7 years ago, have realized that he is watered-down Wendell Berry, and if one more person tells me earnestly to "read Micheal Pollan", so help me God.
Sorry, but the die-hard meater AND the die-hard vegetarian/vegans just piss me off.
By the way, I adored your presentation at Pecha Kucha.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Manatee
The eternal present
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laChewla wrote >>
So recently I ran into a hurdle with my vegetarian diet.
To preface, I have been meatless for 2 years and found myself considerably more healthy. I have lost weight, toned up, have more energy and also found a few morals that I really stand behind...
Recently I have even found myself starting to eat more in line with a vegan raw diet, only occasionally including small amounts of dairy or egg into my meals.
So I went to the doctor for a blood test and received a phone call this week to say I had a message on my secure info line. The woman on the message says, "Lindsay, doctor looked at your blood tests and says that your cholesterol is up to 'high-average' so try and cut that out of your diet." At first I thought to myself, "REALLY? I hardly eat the stuff!" But after some light online reading, I found articles suggesting that some people have livers that over produce cholesterol in reaction to the lack of animal fat in the diet. I am not sure I buy this. More realistically, I think it's due to my family's history of high cholesterol.
I just want to know how to lower it at this point...I am pretty active, with a healthy vegetarian, mostly low fat, balanced diet. All I can think is to start hitting the gym.
Has anyone experienced this?Lindsay. Weston A. Price Foundation/Nourishing Traditions Cookbook.
Largely addresses the cholesterol concern.
Posted 3 years ago # -
deraj1013
Merion Village
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Manatee wrote >>
laChewla wrote >>
So recently I ran into a hurdle with my vegetarian diet.
To preface, I have been meatless for 2 years and found myself considerably more healthy. I have lost weight, toned up, have more energy and also found a few morals that I really stand behind...
Recently I have even found myself starting to eat more in line with a vegan raw diet, only occasionally including small amounts of dairy or egg into my meals.
So I went to the doctor for a blood test and received a phone call this week to say I had a message on my secure info line. The woman on the message says, "Lindsay, doctor looked at your blood tests and says that your cholesterol is up to 'high-average' so try and cut that out of your diet." At first I thought to myself, "REALLY? I hardly eat the stuff!" But after some light online reading, I found articles suggesting that some people have livers that over produce cholesterol in reaction to the lack of animal fat in the diet. I am not sure I buy this. More realistically, I think it's due to my family's history of high cholesterol.
I just want to know how to lower it at this point...I am pretty active, with a healthy vegetarian, mostly low fat, balanced diet. All I can think is to start hitting the gym.
Has anyone experienced this?Lindsay. Weston A. Price Foundation/Nourishing Traditions Cookbook.
Largely addresses the cholesterol concern.Nothing a little exercise and Lipitor won't fix.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Columbusite
Minneapolis
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Tigertree wrote >>
og today and a burger tomorrow.
They rarely think of the animals that lived and breathed and were confined to slosh around in their own filth, or the trucks that sucked down thousands of miles worth of fossil fuels to transport those disembodied animals in cellophane wrappers to our supermarket or restaurant.My reasons (aside from liking meat of course) for not being a vegetarian are pretty similar to my reasons for not riding a bicycle. You guys don't know how to present an argument for your cause without coming off like a morally superior, condescending jackass.
This argument just doesn't make sense, if you don't wanna bike there's plenty of options, no cop out needed. I guess by that logic I can never drive again or I guess we'll just have to invest in scooters for long-distance travel.
I just couldn't be a vegan or vegetarian. Can't do it. I try reducing my consumption of meats, that's pretty much it. Promotion of eating less meat would gain more results since it's much more doable instead of it being an either/or proposition. I mix it up with veggie burgers and fried tofu.
Posted 3 years ago #
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