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Looks good, but I agree with Pablo - the biggest hole in this plan is the weak coverage of the NE, especially Westerville.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Transportation
Where would you put commuter rail around Columbus?
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michaelcoyote
!seabus
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dmerkow wrote >>
Looks good, but I agree with Pablo - the biggest hole in this plan is the weak coverage of the NE, especially Westerville.I actually think that Westerville would be a good candidate for light rail, though a link all the way to Centerburg through Sunbury would be pretty awesome and support a lot of users.
Posted 3 years ago # -
tt342998
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Its important to distinguish between light rail corridors and commuter rail corridors. Light rail would do well in servicing the Pickerington/Westerville/Hilliard/Polaris areas since they are 15-20 miles from the downtown area. True commuter rail has longer distances (30 - 50 miles), less frequency (6 - 10 trips per day), and less ridership (5 - 15 thousand).
As for the question for getting a commuter line up and running as soon as possible - it would have to be the eastern (Newark) corridor. The other lines have greater amount of freight rail traffic or cost more to install sidings or a second mainline track. The Newark line has relatively low amount of freight rail traffic (4 - 8 trains per day vs 10+ on the other lines) and it can be easily expanded in much of the line between Newark and Columbus. More importantly is the fact that the state of Ohio owns a share in this line - the other lines are privately owned by various freight operators.
Posted 3 years ago # -
ehill27
Short North
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Central City Recording wrote >>
...You know like we had in THE F*CKING 1920s!!!
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/images/columbus-streetcars-1927.pdfPablo wrote >>
Cool map. It reminds me of the old interurbans of the early 20th century: http://www.columbusrailroads.com/images/1906_ohio_map.pdfThese maps are incredible!
It's really sad that we lost ALL of these lines. I can't help but wonder what C-Bus (and Ohio) would be like if they didn't abandon this part of our history. Something tells me the city would be much larger, much better known and without a trace of our current identity crisis.
Posted 3 years ago # -
JonMyers
HCMC, Vietnam ✈
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ehill27 wrote >>
Central City Recording wrote >>
...You know like we had in THE F*CKING 1920s!!!
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/images/columbus-streetcars-1927.pdfPablo wrote >>
Cool map. It reminds me of the old interurbans of the early 20th century: http://www.columbusrailroads.com/images/1906_ohio_map.pdfThese maps are incredible!
It's really sad that we lost ALL of these lines. I can't help but wonder what C-Bus (and Ohio) would be like if they didn't abandon this part of our history. Something tells me the city would be much larger, much better known and without a trace of our current identity crisis.My 93 year old grandmother grew up around 3rd and Michigan in VV and often speaks of "the street car". Her reminiscing reminds me of my own fondness of living in cities with decent transportation options.
It would be interesting to put together a panel of senior citizens who did experience the Columbus Rail System and the importance/ non-importance it held in their lives at the time.
Posted 3 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
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ehill27 wrote >>
Central City Recording wrote >>
...You know like we had in THE F*CKING 1920s!!!
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/images/columbus-streetcars-1927.pdfPablo wrote >>
Cool map. It reminds me of the old interurbans of the early 20th century: http://www.columbusrailroads.com/images/1906_ohio_map.pdfThese maps are incredible!
It's really sad that we lost ALL of these lines. I can't help but wonder what C-Bus (and Ohio) would be like if they didn't abandon this part of our history. Something tells me the city would be much larger, much better known and without a trace of our current identity crisis.If you want to be picky, the bus map overlays that streetcar map pretty well. At least we didn't lose too much local service.
That interurban map is pretty astounding though. Especially considering it was 1906. I'd like to see a map from the early 1920s. Imagine if we even had that much service now. I'd love a 80MPH train to Delaware.
tt342998 wrote >>
Its important to distinguish between light rail corridors and commuter rail corridors. Light rail would do well in servicing the Pickerington/Westerville/Hilliard/Polaris areas since they are 15-20 miles from the downtown area. True commuter rail has longer distances (30 - 50 miles), less frequency (6 - 10 trips per day), and less ridership (5 - 15 thousand).Agreed, I think all of the aformentioned would be great candidates for light rail.
tt342998 wrote >>
As for the question for getting a commuter line up and running as soon as possible - it would have to be the eastern (Newark) corridor. The other lines have greater amount of freight rail traffic or cost more to install sidings or a second mainline track. The Newark line has relatively low amount of freight rail traffic (4 - 8 trains per day vs 10+ on the other lines) and it can be easily expanded in much of the line between Newark and Columbus. More importantly is the fact that the state of Ohio owns a share in this line - the other lines are privately owned by various freight operators.Interesting. Thanks for posting. Where can I find information on rail traffic and ownership?
I'd really like to know how heavy the Marysville, Centerville and Lancaster lines are used, and who owns them.
While Newark might work well logistically, I have to wonder how heavily it would be used considering that I70, 161, US40 and 16 are all over that way.
Posted 3 years ago # -
futureman
Grandview Heights
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michaelcoyote wrote:
Interesting. Thanks for posting. Where can I find information on rail traffic and ownership?
I'd really like to know how heavy the Marysville, Centerville and Lancaster lines are used, and who owns them.On a side note, the issue of heavy freight usage on rail lines is the primary reason why Cincinnati is focusing on building a temporary rail station instead of already using the very grand Union Terminal that already services an Amtrak line.
Posted 3 years ago # -
futureman
Grandview Heights
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Now here is a question. Is the Music City Star considered a success or a burden?
It has a ridership of 900 passengers and does two runs a day and was established in 2006. It set the record for the most cost effective start-up line @ 41 million. That start-up cost is amazingly low, but the ridership doesn't seem to be there. What do you think?
Posted 3 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
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futureman wrote >>
michaelcoyote wrote:
Interesting. Thanks for posting. Where can I find information on rail traffic and ownership?
I'd really like to know how heavy the Marysville, Centerville and Lancaster lines are used, and who owns them.On a side note, the issue of heavy freight usage on rail lines is the primary reason why Cincinnati is focusing on building a temporary rail station instead of already using the very grand Union Terminal that already services an Amtrak line.
Looks like it's both capacity and track quality from what I've seen, but yes, traffic can be an issue.. I'm just wondering how often the Marysville and Circleville lines are used.
futureman wrote >>
Now here is a question. Is the Music City Star considered a success or a burden?
It has a ridership of 900 passengers and does two runs a day and was established in 2006. It set the record for the most cost effective start-up line @ 41 million. That start-up cost is amazingly low, but the ridership doesn't seem to be there. What do you think?I have to wonder if they chose the best route as a starter. The Lebanon line is paralleled by I40 and US70. This is why I'm not as hot on a Newark line.
On the other hand, perhaps they (and we) would be better served with something resembling the old interurbans or even something like the MAX light rail. That is to say, more frequency and more stops in the city.
Posted 3 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
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just ran across this map of rail in Ohio from 1918. I believe this covers freight and passenger, but it also shows you Intraurban rail as well. The DjVu scan is really high resolution, and seems to scroll around pretty quickly.
http://www.railsandtrails.com/Maps/OhioRRCommission/1918/index.html
Also of note, if I'm reading this map key correctly, Columbus was under 100,000 people in 1918.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Pablo
Crestview Addition
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michaelcoyote wrote >>
just ran across this map of rail in Ohio from 1918. I believe this covers freight and passenger, but it also shows you Intraurban rail as well. The DjVu scan is really high resolution, and seems to scroll around pretty quickly.
http://www.railsandtrails.com/Maps/OhioRRCommission/1918/index.html
Also of note, if I'm reading this map key correctly, Columbus was under 100,000 people in 1918.Each railroad owned and maintained their own tracks and most ran both freight and passenger trains. There wasn't a separate passenger railroad company like Amtrak. There was more than one railroad station operating in Columbus in the early 1900's. Several used Union station on High St. but Toledo & Ohio opreated their station on W. Broad. Here's a map from 1934 showing how 8 railroad companies interacted in Columbus (all hand drawn, no computers!):
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/images/map-1934-steamroad.pdfPosted 3 years ago # -
futureman
Grandview Heights
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So here is the Ohio Statewide Rail Plan -
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/Programs/StatewideRailPlan/Pages/default.aspx
It has a wealth of knowledge about all the freight lines in Ohio, including which lines experience high traffic and which ones will be upgraded.
Posted 3 years ago # -
tt342998
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The state rail plan has good information regarding track ownership and freight volumes. A very good source for the Columbus area in particular is the MORPC 2007 Rail Inventory - explains the possibilities along each line in the Central Ohio area.
I think you will find parallel highway routes on all of the suggested commuter rail lines (e.g. I-71, SR 315, and US 23 for the Deleware lines or US 40 and I-70 for the Springfield line).
Posted 3 years ago #
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