InnerCore
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rory said:
Got it. Then why are we still doing it?
Rory we are still doing it because developing affordable housing is profitable. The developer can make up to 18% wherever they develop the project. It's should be the priority of the people administering the program and the leadership of the city to make sure that developers are incentivized to build in areas that are more beneficial to the city.
jimbach
Your father's Short North
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InnerCore said:
Rory we are still doing it because developing affordable housing is profitable. The developer can make up to 18% wherever they develop the project. It's should be the priority of the people administering the program and the leadership of the city to make sure that developers are incentivized to build in areas that are more beneficial to the city.
But there are political disincentives for the people who make those decisions to create the kind of financial incentives you advocate. And until those political disincentives are removed or ameliorated then the problem will continue.
SusanB
Hungarian Village, Columbus' fastest growing Gayborhood!
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InnerCore- then why did an official with OCCH tell me that the LIHTC houses were "almost always section 8 voucher"? I can't name him (he'd deny saying it I'm sure) but he was at the very top. The restrictions on rental rates do not include vouchers as that they are not part of the tenant's income. I would bet very large monies that the LIHTC house on Hinman Ave is section 8 voucher, and has been for all 4 of the tenants in the last 6 years.
Yes it's double dipping IMHO but that's one of the reasons it is so lucrative. And 30k "administrative overhead" on a 90k build cost home is really obscene IMHO.
InnerCore
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SusanB said:
InnerCore- then why did an official with OCCH tell me that the LIHTC houses were "almost always section 8 voucher"? I can't name him (he'd deny saying it I'm sure) but he was at the very top. The restrictions on rental rates do not include vouchers as that they are not part of the tenant's income. I would bet very large monies that the LIHTC house on Hinman Ave is section 8 voucher, and has been for all 4 of the tenants in the last 6 years.Yes it's double dipping IMHO but that's one of the reasons it is so lucrative. And 30k "administrative overhead" on a 90k build cost home is really obscene IMHO.
It appears that you are confusing programs. There are multiple programs that use some sort of tax incentive in various forms. The LIHTC program is for the development of rental projects. What you seem to be referring to is the RTI (residential tax incentive program). It basically says if you renovate a home withing an approved area you don't have to pay property tax on the increased value of the property as a result of the improvement.
In this case people aren't actually given any money. I really don't have a problem with this as this doesn't really encourage section 8 anymore than what would already be there.
For example let's take a run down house in WP. The property owner pays hardly no property tax because the property isn't worth much. If the property owner upgrades the house he'll have to pay higher property tax and probably still wont get a market rate tenant to offset the full cost so he leaves it empty. So then you implement this program and the owner upgrades the property knowing his property taxes wont increase. Now he still cant get a market rate tenant so he accepts section 8. So now he pays lower taxes and gets market rental rates. It a huge win for him and probably a huge win for the area because a rented house is better than a vacant house.
The landowner isn't locked into keeping the unit affordable for 30 years. This program is just there to incentivize land owners to invest their own money into their properties. And were not using government money.
SusanB
Hungarian Village, Columbus' fastest growing Gayborhood!
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Nope. The house on E. Hinman is a new build LIHTC house. And voucher. "Rent to own" but not really. Locked in for 15 years.
Listed here:
http://homeportohio.org/property-search/?property_type=rent&status=available#
Note the "call for price".
mrsgeedeck
Castle of Lions
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I know some of this is a space issue/using existing builds but I think its interesting that WP would get a proposed 17 townhomes whereas VV would only get 8.
http://weinlandpark.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/homeport-proposal/in011/
InnerCore
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SusanB said:
Yes it's double dipping IMHO but that's one of the reasons it is so lucrative. And 30k "administrative overhead" on a 90k build cost home is really obscene IMHO.
SusanB said:
Nope. The house on E. Hinman is a new build LIHTC house. And voucher. "Rent to own" but not really. Locked in for 15 years.Listed here:
http://homeportohio.org/property-search/?property_type=rent&status=available#Note the "call for price".
I think were misunderstanding each other now. Section 8 is a voucher program where people pay at most 30% of the market rate. You can't use the vouchers to go higher than the LIHTC gross rents.
In a LIHTC project because of the money received from tax credits they cant charge higher than a certain amount.
So for example lets say the market rate for rent in an area is $1000. The section 8 recipient we be responsible to pay at most $300 of that $1000. Now an LIHTC project would have lower than market rents that are based off the area median income (AMI). You can get different credits depending on whether you do 40% of AMI or 60% for example and it varies on family size.
So lets say the LIHTC program maximum rent is $750. You would have to have an income below that percentage of the AMI but if you only make $10,000 a year they are not going to accept you because you cant afford to pay.
So since you only make $10,000 you qualify for section 8. Section 8 is now going to make sure that you don't pay more than 30% of the $750. So now the LIHTC project can accept you but they're still only getting a maximum of $750 and not the $1000 market rent. This isn't double dipping.
InnerCore
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mrsgeedeck said:
@Innercore are you familiar with Skyview Towers? Overall not bad to look at, and from the website chock full of amenities, but still sketchy as hell in part due to population density.We looked at two houses on Hamlet off of 5th in WP and in the end were turned off by the amount of subsidized housing in the area. With Section 8 directly around the corner on 5th and again at the end of the block (near the school/park) we felt the ratio of single family to state subsidy was too high for long term investment.
I actually went to the middle school next door. I also used to attend meetings as a member of the CUL on Mt. Vernon. To me this area just doesn't have enough nearby amenities.
But I agree with your assessment of WP and this is the problem with putting affordable housing into already economically depressed areas. When I look at investment or development I'm usually looking at about a 5 year horizon. In order get most projects done you need to raise equity from investors and have to be able to return a profit in a decent time frame. Not many people are going to be willing to invest a decent amount of money if you're not likely to be able to return capital until 30 years later.
SusanB
Hungarian Village, Columbus' fastest growing Gayborhood!
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Except that section 8 vouchers are rated way higher than market on the south side. $1200 for a 4 bedroom, market rate is about $800-$900. The LIHTC rent is based on the $1200 city wide figure, not the neighborhood actuals.
InnerCore
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The LIHTC maximum rent for a 4 bedroom is $1,182 and requires a family of 6. If you put someone with section 8 in that unit you're not going to get much more than that.
I'm not going to argue that they aren't a few ways go game the system. I guess if the average 4 bedroom on the southside rents for $900 you could build a LIHTC 4 bedroom unit with a max rent of $1,182 and then fill it with a section 8 family that gets you the max LIHTC rent when in all probability the unit would only rent for $900.
But were talking about exceptions not the rule, especially when you're talking about a family of 6.
But I think the core issue here to get back on track is that an affordable housing developer could develop for example an 80 unit property downtown just as profitable as they could in WP. The max rents for a 1 bedroom would be 765 and 918 for a 2 bedroom. That property would stay 100% full at the maximum rents downtown. The problem is getting approved for the tax credits is easier in WP than it is downtown.
Put the affordable housing in more desirable areas where these families will have easier access to transit and jobs and let the markets revitalize areas like WP.
mrpoppinzs
Arena District
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mrsgeedeck said:
@Innercore are you familiar with Skyview Towers?We looked at two houses on Hamlet off of 5th in WP and in the end were turned off by the amount of subsidized housing in the area. With Section 8 directly around the corner on 5th and again at the end of the block (near the school/park) we felt the ratio of single family to state subsidy was too high for long term investment.
I stumbled on that block about a year ago and was very impressed with the quality of the buildings, I would say that they stand out in WP and even also much of IV.
With the park (green space is a premium in the SN especially for the pet friendly crowd) and the proximity to things such as walking distance to Kroger and the SN I think the individual landlords renting to section 8 in that area will diminish in the not too distant future. What may be a roadblock are those Hamlet Row houses on 5th if they are locked into 15 year contracts and also the housing project at the corner of Summit and 7th. I have issues with locking property into long term subsidy agreements.
Interestingly I have heard they are turning the similar building at 7th and Indianola into condos.
labi
Weinland Park
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Just spotted: single-family house for sale by owner at 1417 Summit. Contact number listed on the sign is 614 398-7977.
This is on the west side of the street, just a few houses south of E. Eighth Ave.
It's listed on the auditor's site as 1536 sq. ft., 3 BR, 2 full baths.
News
Columbus Underground
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We’re stuck with it.
December 21, 2012
Despite millions of dollars invested in Weinland Park this is seen as an improvement.
Since last June various residents of Weinland Park and members of the civic association have been meeting with City Council members, city officials, and anyone who would listen about Hometeam Properties illegal renovation of the house at 225 E. 11th Avenue. The company added a dormer, boxed in a portion of the second story, moved all the windows and the backdoor, and essentially doubled the square footage in order to make a student group home out of an 1890s single-family home. The issue was that they skipped architectural review and just went ahead and did the renovations.
READ MORE: http://weinlandpark.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/were-stuck-with-it/
jbcmh81
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News said:
We’re stuck with it.
December 21, 2012Despite millions of dollars invested in Weinland Park this is seen as an improvement.
Since last June various residents of Weinland Park and members of the civic association have been meeting with City Council members, city officials, and anyone who would listen about Hometeam Properties illegal renovation of the house at 225 E. 11th Avenue. The company added a dormer, boxed in a portion of the second story, moved all the windows and the backdoor, and essentially doubled the square footage in order to make a student group home out of an 1890s single-family home. The issue was that they skipped architectural review and just went ahead and did the renovations.
READ MORE: http://weinlandpark.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/were-stuck-with-it/
Wasn't this the same board that claimed that the proposed 5-story nearby on High was far too tall and that a 1-2 story was better? This board seems awful all the way around.
And that renovation is hideous. They essentially stripped the house of every last architectural detail.
Urban Dansigner
Downtown
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jbcmh81 - You are in error
Wasn't this the same board that claimed that the proposed 5-story nearby on High was far too tall and that a 1-2 story was better?
The University Area Review Board (conditionally) approved the 5 story building at 7th & High. The owner has chosen not to move forward.
The UARB also tried to convince AHF to build at least 3 stories at 5th & High.
In the end owners have property rights and Government has limited powers, that is a blessing and a curse.
labi
Weinland Park
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At the same meeting, on another case involving a property in a commercial zone, the board sent Huntington Bank back to the drawing board to create a custom ATM surround, because the stock one that their architect proposed was deemed to be insufficiently sensitive to the aesthetic quality of the blank brutalist wall it was being proposed for.
The concern displayed in that case for the finer points of aesthetics was pretty much absent from the case of 225 E. 11th. Because that owner had gone ahead and obliterated all architectural features before anyone stopped them, the board seemed to feel that the original building's appearance was no longer a concern - they seemed to be negotiating to find a "reasonable" accommodation between the illegal work and their own personal aesthetic preferences. Even though just a few weeks before I had heard with my own ears (and in the presence of the UARB's city staff person) city officials say that it would have been entirely within their powers to have every bit of illegal work reversed. And that there was recent precedent for reversals like that in Italian Village.
Something in their brains seems to turn off when they see a rental residential property.
News
Columbus Underground
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From here: http://www.columbusunderground.com/wagenbrenner-continues-urban-infill-development-in-2013
Wagenbrenner hopes to advance plans for the former Columbus Coated Fabrics this year, and is planning to begin a historic renovation to buildings on Eleventh Avenue on the northern end of the neighborhood starting in April.
“There’s still a lot of stuff along the edges, but we couldn’t be happier with how we’re seeing the market respond in Weinland Park,” said Wagenbrenner. “The community components are coming along too, including the Urban Food Center at the former 3M site. There’s still a fair amount of interest in that, but who knows where it will end up.”
bucki12
wp
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Weinland Park efforts set to be evaluated
By Mark Ferenchik
The Columbus Dispatch Monday January 28, 2013 7:33 AM
Tens of millions of dollars in taxpayer money have been spent since 2007 to renovate houses, rebuild streets and clean up sites for development in the impoverished Weinland Park neighborhood.
mrpoppinzs
Arena District
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I ran across this when doing a little historical research about the SNP. It is an article about the Short North/Weinland Park in the much rougher days.
http://www.gorillaconvict.com/holding-down-the-neighborhood-2/
lazyfish
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mrpoppinzs said:
I ran across this when doing a little historical research about the SNP. It is an article about the Short North/Weinland Park in the much rougher days.http://www.gorillaconvict.com/holding-down-the-neighborhood-2/
yikes! I always thought the 3rd and Michigan boys were pretty violent and out there. The SNP seemed less aggressive for a while, Columbus really didn't have many aggressive gangs until the mid 90's. The something happened and the place was stoopid violent. I think it was 89 or 90 when Everett Middle school had 5-6 kids murdered in the hood in one year. Tragic stuff.
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