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U.S. Poised For Passenger Rail Boom

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Started 1 year ago by News
Latest reply from Walker

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gramarye
In Exile
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cheap said:
all that frigging money needed for a 3 mile trolley ride?

no way.

A paltry sum in the larger transportation picture, for a system that has generated significant positive economic returns in the form of property and business development in other cities, and should get the benefit of the doubt at this point. But apparently that isn't good enough, and nothing will ever be good enough, for some skeptics. I just wish I could understand the skepticism better, because the evidence is so strong and so one-sided at this point that I can't even believe it's about evidence anymore. It has to be about some bigger cultural or symbolic concern. No one primarily concerned about economic development could vote against it at this point.

Posted 1 year ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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gramarye said:
A paltry sum in the larger transportation picture, for a system that has generated significant positive economic returns in the form of property and business development in other cities, and should get the benefit of the doubt at this point. But apparently that isn't good enough, and nothing will ever be good enough, for some skeptics. I just wish I could understand the skepticism better, because the evidence is so strong and so one-sided at this point that I can't even believe it's about evidence anymore. It has to be about some bigger cultural or symbolic concern. No one primarily concerned about economic development could vote against it at this point.

I think the resistance is that people expect a large transportation investment to provide mobility benefits. The truth is that streetcars won't take you anywhere any faster than a bus could if everything else were equal (see Human Transit for more details).

However, streetcars do improve the quality of the transit experience (e.g., smoother ride, more spacious vehicles), and evidence shows (as you noted) that they encourage development along the line. More development means you can reach more destinations in the same time, so there are accessibility benefits even though there are not mobility benefits.

I think streetcars should be thought of mostly as an economic development tool with some transportation benefits. For that reason, I think the funding source is important. I wouldn't want to see the streetcar divert too much in transportation funding from other projects. I'd be okay with maybe 20% of the cost coming from normal transportation revenue sources, but I guess that's just a personal opinion.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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johnwirtz said:
I think streetcars should be thought of mostly as an economic development tool with some transportation benefits. For that reason, I think the funding source is important. I wouldn't want to see the streetcar divert too much in transportation funding from other projects. I'd be okay with maybe 20% of the cost coming from normal transportation revenue sources, but I guess that's just a personal opinion.

I can understand and appreciate where you're coming from in regards to funding sources, but if a Streetcar line could replace an existing bus line in some capacity, then it would allow existing transit spending to be allocated elsewhere. I don't think it has to be duplicative.

Posted 1 year ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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Walker said:
I can understand and appreciate where you're coming from in regards to funding sources, but if a Streetcar line could replace an existing bus line in some capacity, then it would allow existing transit spending to be allocated elsewhere. I don't think it has to be duplicative.

It seems that might apply more to the operating costs than the capital costs, but I generally agree with you. My 20% number was just made up for illustrative purposes. Some kind of more detailed calculation of the costs and benefits of the streetcar compared to other alternatives (similar to what is being done for Cleveland Avenue BRT) could be used to allocate capital and operating costs appropriately.

Posted 1 year ago #
peanutnozone
Baltimore MD
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A streetcar full of the inebriated sure sounds like a fun time.

Thought I'd put it out there...alcohol and public transit don't necessarily mix. I usually hold my liquor REALLY well...but I got pretty smashed St Patrick's day (Saturday night) and I totally projectile vomited on the metro ride home. I blame it on drunk + all that stopping and lurching...urk....

Posted 1 year ago #
CalebR
Lincoln Village
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Some positive(?) news....

==================

Amtrak on Pace to Set New Ridership Record
PR Newswire – Wed, Apr 11, 2012

WASHINGTON, April 11, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Amtrak is on pace to set another new annual ridership record as passenger counts across its national network for the first six months of fiscal year 2012 (October 2011 - March 2012) are up 3.7 percent over the same period last year when the current record was established.

To read more: http://news.yahoo.com/amtrak-pace-set-ridership-record-143107738.html

Posted 1 year ago #
Rockmastermike
The Bacon District
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Al-Qaeda Claims U.S. Mass Transportation Infrastructure Must Drastically Improve Before Any Terrorist Attacks

The al-Qaeda commander confirmed his organization initially hoped to cripple travel in the United States by destroying its nationwide high-speed rail system, but had been shocked to discover no such thing exists.

al-Zawahiri blasted the U.S. government for its lack of foresight and admonished its leaders for failing to provide Americans with efficient and reliable modes of public transport to reduce traffic congestion, lower carbon emissions, improve air quality, and supply suitable targets for terrorists.

"The al-Qaeda network is fully prepared to continue the jihad against the American infidels by launching deadly attacks, but your outdated and rusting transportation infrastructure needs to be completely overhauled for those strikes even to be noticed," al-Zawahiri said. "We want to turn your bridges into rubble, but if we claimed credit for making them collapse, nobody would ever believe us."

"We'd really just be doing you a favor because then you'd actually have to rebuild them," al-Zawahiri added.

"It's ridiculous that the Netherlands, the world's 16th-ranked economy, is continuously investing in its infrastructure, while the No. 1 economy simply refuses to enter the 21st century," said al-Zawahiri, adding that Americans should be ashamed of having only one operational high-speed rail line, considering the Dutch have 120. "And of course, we don't want to bring the Netherlands to its knees and make its people question the unholy excesses of their way of life. No one would care if we did that."

Posted 1 year ago #
myliftkk
Columbus, OH
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^ Well that's it then. No choo-choo for you. No sense in being a terrorist target after all...

OTOH - I heard Al Qaeda invested all of their resources in Hostess figuring that would give them the perfect opportunity to slaughter American though their mass transportation of snack cakes, and shitty healthcare.

Posted 1 year ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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LOL!

Posted 1 year ago #
Rockmastermike
The Bacon District
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myliftkk said:
OTOH - I heard Al Qaeda invested all of their resources in Hostess figuring that would give them the perfect opportunity to slaughter American though their mass transportation of snack cakes, and shitty healthcare.

That one is working all too well.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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Ha! Good stuff. ;)

Posted 1 year ago #
CalebR
Lincoln Village
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This is a joke right? Why don't al-qaeda can go shove it. ;)

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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CalebR said:
This is a joke right? Why don't al-qaeda can go shove it. ;)

From the onion?

Always a source of hard hitting news, that.

Posted 1 year ago #
Buster Bluth
Columbus, OH
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Well played.

Posted 1 year ago #
Rockmastermike
The Bacon District
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its the Internets. EVERYTHING is an elaborate hoax or a work of fiction until proven otherwise and such proof has also been proven accurate.

The Onion has been a purveyor of fine parody and satire for over 100 years. Look it up on wikipedia if you don't believe me.

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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Rockmastermike said:
its the Internets. EVERYTHING is an elaborate hoax or a work of fiction until proven otherwise and such proof has also been proven accurate.

The Onion has been a purveyor of fine parody and satire for over 100 years. Look it up on wikipedia if you don't believe me.

Pshaw. I'll just check snopes...

wait.

Posted 1 year ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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Rockmastermike said:
That one is working all too well.

Hah! Not really; Hostess has filed for bankruptcy twice in the past few years.

Posted 1 year ago #
myliftkk
Columbus, OH
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gramarye said:
Hah! Not really; Hostess has filed for bankruptcy twice in the past few years.

Turns out there's not a big market for Halal Ho-Hos eh?

Posted 1 year ago #
Rockmastermike
The Bacon District
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gramarye said:
Hah! Not really; Hostess has filed for bankruptcy twice in the past few years.

was speaking of the general plot to kill people via cheap crappy "food", not the profitability of hostess (good riddance to horrible products).

Posted 1 year ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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Rockmastermike said:
was speaking of the general plot to kill people via cheap crappy "food", not the profitability of hostess (good riddance to horrible products).

As long as Little Debbie stays in business, I'm good.

Posted 1 year ago #