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At smoking. It's a completely reasonable, civil thing to ask people to keep their addiction's side effects from harming others. Your liberty ends when your actions start harming your neighbor.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Nightlife
Smoking Ban - News & Updates
[198 posts] [67 contributors]
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jbcmh81
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sirlancelot said:
Okay, I do not smoke. Banning smoking in bars has never made sense to me because, so far, we do not criminalise the adult use of tobacco. If I wish to avoid inhaling cigarette smoke, in a public place, I stay away or seek employment elsewhere. The health hazards cited to justify a public smoking ban logically clould extend to people with the flu or failure to hand wash. Where does it stop?Next thing you know, they'll be stealing our women too!!
Posted 7 months ago # -
Coremodels
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joev said:
At smoking. It's a completely reasonable, civil thing to ask people to keep their addiction's side effects from harming others. Your liberty ends when your actions start harming your neighbor.Of course, as a bar owner, an argument could be made that they should be able to allow a legal activity in their bar...because its their bar. They could hire only smokers to avoid any issues of employees being exposed, make it clear it a smoking establishment so that non-smokers can make the decision not to be a patron, and the problem is solved.
The part I've never understood, if so many people are opposed to smoking in bars, why wasn't there this booming market for non-smoking bars before the ban?
Posted 7 months ago # -
rory
NW Short North
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Coremodels said:
The part I've never understood, if so many people are opposed to smoking in bars, why wasn't there this booming market for non-smoking bars before the ban?
I'd compare it to wondering why there wasn't a booming market for unadulterated food or child labor free coal in the 19th century. It's not like there wasn't a market it's that as a business person why would you be the first one to pioneer it if doing so might very well put you out of business as you give everyone else a competitive advantage. A regulation like the smoking ban puts all businesses on a level playing field in the interest of public health. I'd say that the polls indicated that there is a market for non-smoking bars just like legislation indicated there was a market for safe food a hundred years ago. Then and now it was just too risky for business owners to do it business by business.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Coremodels
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rory said:
I'd compare it to wondering why there wasn't a booming market for unadulterated food or child labor free coal in the 19th century.Why go back so far? I'd say its closer to what's happening today, with some companies choosing considerably higher production costs to avoid outsourcing to child labor or producing organic, free range, etc. etc. food at a higher cost because there is a market for it.
Posted 7 months ago # -
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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Coremodels said:
The part I've never understood, if so many people are opposed to smoking in bars, why wasn't there this booming market for non-smoking bars before the ban?I wondered that too. I suspect that for going out to a bar, a single smoker in a group has such a strong preference for smoking that it outweighs each individual's (in that group) preference for non. So the smoker is willing to invest far more in getting their preference than anyone else. (And in something like voting, the cost to express that preference is equal.) That is my economic argument.
A.
Posted 7 months ago # -
groundrules
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Coremodels said:
Of course, as a bar owner, an argument could be made that they should be able to allow a legal activity in their bar...because its their bar.can we please just once and for all kill this ridiculous and misplaced argument that suggests that if you own something, you can do whatever the hell you want with it? If you own a dog, can you fight it? if you own a kid, can you beat the shit out of it? if you own a garage and some cold pills, can you cook meth in it?
ferfucksake, ownership doesn't make you emperor of your private kingdom.
/rant
Posted 7 months ago # -
rory
NW Short North
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Coremodels said:
Why go back so far? I'd say its closer to what's happening today, with some companies choosing considerably higher production costs to avoid outsourcing to child labor or producing organic, free range, etc. etc. food at a higher cost because there is a market for it.But there were no boutique non-smoking bars before the ban. I went back so far because it was another instance in business where whoever went first went out of business. My point is that before the ban there was a booming market that couldn't be satisfied without accompanying regulation to protect the business that would satisfy that booming market. It's not something we see everyday.
Posted 7 months ago # -
rus
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groundrules said:
can we please just once and for all kill this ridiculous and misplaced argument that suggests that if you own something, you can do whatever the hell you want with it? If you own a dog, can you fight it? if you own a kid, can you beat the shit out of it? if you own a garage and some cold pills, can you cook meth in it?ferfucksake, ownership doesn't make you emperor of your private kingdom.
/rant
because dogfighting, child abuse and home meth labs are legal?
Posted 7 months ago # -
groundrules
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rus
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groundrules said:
know what? smoking in bars ain't either.Oh I see your point, but it's not the one core appeared to be making.
Seemed to be: Smoking is legal, so property owners should decide if they want to allow it or not. Your response was to list a number of activities that are illegal period, not just legal but unpopular.
Posted 7 months ago # -
groundrules
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rus said:
Oh I see your point, but it's not the one core appeared to be making.Seemed to be: Smoking is legal, so property owners should decide if they want to allow it or not. Your response was to list a number of activities that are illegal period, not just legal but unpopular.
point is simply the property ownership doesn't give you blanket permission to break laws or neglect established human health standards.
Posted 7 months ago # -
groundrules
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also, I can't believe we're still arguing about this.
Posted 7 months ago # -
cbus11
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There is a lot of stuff that goes into effect when you start bringing the public into the mix. There are a lot of things which are legal in one context and not another. Why can't you drink a beer on the sidewalk? I am not saying it is right, but it is not something new.
Posted 7 months ago # -
groundrules
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Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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rory said:
But there were no boutique non-smoking bars before the ban. I went back so far because it was another instance in business where whoever went first went out of business. My point is that before the ban there was a booming market that couldn't be satisfied without accompanying regulation to protect the business that would satisfy that booming market. It's not something we see everyday....I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not understanding me. My question is why there were no boutique non-smoking bars before the ban if it was such a public demand.
More to the point, you're pointing to the polls that eliminated smoking in bars as overwhelming public support to ban smoking in bars...only that's not what was voted on, and I daresay if the vote was specific to bars only it may have turned out differently.
BTW groundrules, we're not debating adding the ability to do something in bars that is unique...like say carrying firearms...we're debating the ability to do something in bars that you were able to do for generations prior and only very recently prohibited.
Posted 7 months ago #
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