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byJody said:
The location is only 2.5 miles south of the Amtrak train station, I wonder if they will do a transportation tie in?Amtrak Toledo, OH (TOL)
415 Emerald Ave.
Central Union Plaza
Toledo, OH 43604
Yeah, light rail....
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion
Toledo Casino - News & Updates
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The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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Posted 11 months ago # -
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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heresthecasey said:
Yeah... Having seen what's been happening in Toledo and Cleveland, I can safely say I am glad Columbus' will not be downtown.It would of made more sense to put it D'Town. Probably would of made more money in the Arena District. And if it fails out there in the boonies, the politicians have no one to blame but themselves.
LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION...
Posted 11 months ago # -
NEOBuckeye
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The Peoples Champion said:
It would of made more sense to put it D'Town. Probably would of made more money in the Arena District. And if it fails out there in the boonies, the politicians have no one to blame but themselves.LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION...
Meh. The Arena District didn't want a chintzy, suburbanesque, Hollywood-themed casino built there on prime land. Can you really blame them? Maybe had Penn National actually done their homework on Columbus instead of arrogantly trying to take a dump on the city claiming "will of the people" when Columbus never wanted a casino in the first place, they might have had better luck getting somewhere with a proposal as opposed to a blueprint, no pun intended. They pushed, but the city pushed back harder and forced them out to the far west side. If the casino ultimately folds, that's on Penn National, not Columbus.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Twixlen
The Weston District
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NEOBuckeye said:....They pushed, but the city pushed back harder and forced them out to the far west side. If the casino ultimately folds, that's on Penn National, not Columbus.
Just to be clear - the city didn't really do much pushing. They stood around, dithering their hands, trying to be the middle ground, while private donors (including the Wolfe family, Nationwide, AEP, etc) spent millions each on campaigning - literally hiring a group - to away the public toward moving the casino. NIMBY all the way.
It makes one wonder what could have happened, had that same attention been pushed toward Penn National regarding their choice of casino design - they could have potentially influenced them to change & be something much more fitting to how Columbus wants to be perceived.
Instead, it got moved & we are now bailing out the Arena with casino revenues.
Posted 11 months ago # -
The Peoples Champion
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NEOBuckeye said:
Meh. The Arena District didn't want a chintzy, suburbanesque, Hollywood-themed casino built there on prime land. Can you really blame them? Maybe had Penn National actually done their homework on Columbus instead of arrogantly trying to take a dump on the city claiming "will of the people" when Columbus never wanted a casino in the first place, they might have had better luck getting somewhere with a proposal as opposed to a blueprint, no pun intended. They pushed, but the city pushed back harder and forced them out to the far west side. If the casino ultimately folds, that's on Penn National, not Columbus.Yeah, the drunk people throwing up, urinating in the parking lots, and the taxis dam near hitting people make the neighborhood unique..... That's why I'll always say Columbus is behind many cities..
I just think the people here watched "Casino" one too many times.. Then, they whined about every little thing.. So, let's put it near Dayton.... lol
Posted 11 months ago # -
NEOBuckeye
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Twixlen said:
Just to be clear - the city didn't really do much pushing. They stood around, dithering their hands, trying to be the middle ground, while private donors (including the Wolfe family, Nationwide, AEP, etc) spent millions each on campaigning - literally hiring a group - to away the public toward moving the casino. NIMBY all the way.It makes one wonder what could have happened, had that same attention been pushed toward Penn National regarding their choice of casino design - they could have potentially influenced them to change & be something much more fitting to how Columbus wants to be perceived.
Instead, it got moved & we are now bailing out the Arena with casino revenues.
It's pretty difficult to imagine the interests so opposed to the Columbus casino in the first place suddenly rolling over and agreeing to work with a company that waltzes onto their turf with stock blueprints and total disregard for the culture of the city (on multiple fronts) that they were entirely too eager to break into. I'm no fan of Wolfe and some of the other private investors in the AD, but I maintain that Penn National carries the bulk of the blame for how the casino deal went down in Columbus.
It was up to Penn National to negotiate with the interests vested in the AD and put forth a design proposal that resonated with the general public of Columbus to the point of even winning over the better part of those who wanted no part of a casino here. Instead, they badly mishandled the one chance they had to set the narrative, and accordingly blew things big time. What's worse, it's not like they didn't have Dan Gilbert setting an example for them with his own campaigning, networking, and design proposals in Cleveland and Cincinnati.
Other than the fact that Cincinnati and Cleveland in general were already receptive to the idea of having casinos downtown, why didn't Gilbert run into anything remotely approaching resistance from the public and private investor/business communities in those cities?
Toledo, meanwhile, is a completely different animal from Columbus (or Cleveland and Cincinnati for that matter). Penn National probably could have built the Toledo casino in the Marina District there and no one would have even raised an eyebrow. Why did they pass on trying to land a stock suburban design in a key district there, yet found it so critical to try and foist the same thing upon the Arena District here in Columbus?
Posted 11 months ago # -
NEOBuckeye
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The Peoples Champion said:
Yeah, the drunk people throwing up, urinating in the parking lots, and the taxis dam near hitting people make the neighborhood unique..... That's why I'll always say Columbus is behind many cities..I just think the people here watched "Casino" one too many times.. Then, they whined about every little thing.. So, let's put it near Dayton.... lol
Many great cities don't have casinos downtown. Columbus has done very well without one for years, and will likely continue to do well for years more.
Posted 11 months ago # -
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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We need to take up a collection and buy People's Champion a map. Never knew Westland was "near Dayton"/.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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MRipley
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NEOBuckeye said:
It's pretty difficult to imagine the interests so opposed to the Columbus casino in the first place suddenly rolling over and agreeing to work with a company that waltzes onto their turf.......so the AD is "their turf"?
Other than the fact that Cincinnati and Cleveland in general were already receptive to the idea of having casinos downtown, why didn't Gilbert run into anything remotely approaching resistance from the public and private investor/business communities in those cities?......
maybe Cleveland/Cincinnati don't have the same type of arrogant high-rollers controlling the city as Columbus does.
Why did they pass on trying to land a stock suburban design in a key district there, yet found it so critical to try and foist the same thing upon the Arena District here in Columbus?.....
maybe because the Arena District isn't all that some like to think it is. A bar and night club district would seem to be a good fit for casino.
Posted 11 months ago # -
cheap
Westgate
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notice a similarity between the casino being pushed out of downtown and westerville fighting walmart moving there?i do.
this whole casino business has shown that the suburban mentality is alive and well in downtown.
same attitude as the suburbs,just a different location.
Posted 11 months ago # -
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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Twixlen
The Weston District
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NEOBuckeye said:
It's pretty difficult to imagine the interests so opposed to the Columbus casino in the first place suddenly rolling over and agreeing to work with a company that waltzes onto their turf with stock blueprints and total disregard for the culture of the city (on multiple fronts) that they were entirely too eager to break into. I'm no fan of Wolfe and some of the other private investors in the AD, but I maintain that Penn National carries the bulk of the blame for how the casino deal went down in Columbus.It was up to Penn National to negotiate with the interests vested in the AD and put forth a design proposal that resonated with the general public of Columbus to the point of even winning over the better part of those who wanted no part of a casino here. Instead, they badly mishandled the one chance they had to set the narrative, and accordingly blew things big time. What's worse, it's not like they didn't have Dan Gilbert setting an example for them with his own campaigning, networking, and design proposals in Cleveland and Cincinnati.
Other than the fact that Cincinnati and Cleveland in general were already receptive to the idea of having casinos downtown, why didn't Gilbert run into anything remotely approaching resistance from the public and private investor/business communities in those cities?
Toledo, meanwhile, is a completely different animal from Columbus (or Cleveland and Cincinnati for that matter). Penn National probably could have built the Toledo casino in the Marina District there and no one would have even raised an eyebrow. Why did they pass on trying to land a stock suburban design in a key district there, yet found it so critical to try and foist the same thing upon the Arena District here in Columbus?
How do we know that Toledo *didn't* go to Penn National after receiving their "stock plans" and tell them it wouldn't work? How do we know they didn't fight for something else? Just because it wasn't publicized, doesn't mean that very well couldn't have happened.
The City of Columbus (leaders & officials) behaved like a petulant children regarding the casino - and let's not kid ourselves regarding the classism that was in play. Rich folks thought casino = unwashed masses, and knew they didn't want any part of that.
None of it really matters, because what's happened is done, and we all have to live with it now, good and bad.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Coremodels
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Why did they pass on trying to land a stock suburban design in a key district there, yet found it so critical to try and foist the same thing upon the Arena District here in Columbus?
They didn't. The original information on the design for the AD location was completely different than what is being built out west.
"It's not going to be a gaudy, neon-filled thing. It's going to fit what you already see down here," Schippers said of the site on West Nationwide Boulevard. "We're going to do some beautification efforts to
the entire area. Hopefully, we can improve views of the waterfront, maybe even do some jogging paths or walking paths down here."The former machine shop site where the casino would be built is behind Huntington Park and a block from Nationwide Arena. Penn National does not plan to provide renderings of what the casino would look like before the November election, but Schippers said the building would be single-story, with an attached parking garage.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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They should have provided those plans for what the Arena District site would have looked like. Every developer in Columbus provides renderings and site plans and visuals in advance.
Because they did announce that it would be a "Hollywood Casino" in the Arena District, which didn't help their cause for locating there.
http://www.columbusunderground.com/proposed-casino-to-be-branded-as-hollywood-casino
Posted 11 months ago # -
Coremodels
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Walker said:
Every developer in Columbus provides renderings and site plans and visuals in advance.In advance of what? Most developers don't face a statewide vote regarding their ability to do a project, so they don't provide any such thing in advance of a vote that doesn't take place.
No one demanded a rendering before they let Penn spend a fortune on the environmental cleanup of the land...
Posted 11 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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Coremodels said:
In advance of what?Most developers provide renderings/sitemaps/plans/visuals in advance of all approvals from area commissions and municipal/city entities. Quite often we see first drafts of plans that get altered/revised before being approved for construction.
If Penn wanted to build something nicer in the Arena District and a public vote was going to be required to see it located there, you'd think it would be in their best interest to let people know what it was vaguely going to look like rather than just asking people to take them at their word.
Anyway... who's ready for a road trip to Toledo? ;)
Posted 11 months ago # -
NEOBuckeye
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Twixlen said:
How do we know that Toledo *didn't* go to Penn National after receiving their "stock plans" and tell them it wouldn't work? How do we know they didn't fight for something else? Just because it wasn't publicized, doesn't mean that very well couldn't have happened.Beggars can't be choosy. Well, not without looking like fools at least. Toledo is desperate for any kind of development and investment these days. It seems highly unlikely that they would have been too discriminating of casino design proposals. Given their economic status and position, they really can't afford to be.
Posted 11 months ago # -
cheap
Westgate
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back in the eafrly 90's when i was living there,Toledo had sort of an urban bump in the warehouse district,then kind of blahhed out
some of those places down there have some interesting history
you ought to see some of those old houses that have been renovated in Toledo's old west end
they are frigging humongous.
Posted 11 months ago #
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