The Stimulus Package Cometh... « Columbus Underground Messageboard

Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Politics

The Stimulus Package Cometh...

[69 posts] [22 contributors]

Topic Rating:

(Total Ratings: )
Rate this topic:

Started 3 years ago by turnedNOTburned
Latest reply from chrisgillespie

Tags:

politics

12…4 Next »

turnedNOTburned
Grandview/Columbus, Ohio
Login to Send PM

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/20/news/economy/stimulus_take_two/index.htm?postversion=2008102017
Am I the only person that DOESN'T want a check from the government to encourage me to spend? I'm REALLY hoping they start investing in our ailing infrastructure - water, bridges, alternative energies, roads, etc. I also like some of the other measures mentioned in the article. I'm sure it'll be a multi-pronged approach.
I'd rather make the hard decisions now, and be better of in 10 years. What's everyone else think?

Posted 3 years ago #
Mercurius
First Avenue
Login to Send PM

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 21 Oct 2008 at 03:17:55 PM GMT is:

Posted 3 years ago #
Mercurius
First Avenue
Login to Send PM

That doesn't include unfunded mandates like Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare.
from Wiki
this figure rises to a total of $59.1 trillion, or $516,348 per household

Posted 3 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
Login to Send PM

turnedNOTburned wrote Am I the only person that DOESN'T want a check from the government to encourage me to spend?
No. I absolutely think this is a terrible idea. The reason our economic growth had been so strong until now was because Americans had a NEGATIVE savings rate. They spent more than they earned. The reason this crisis has been so deep is because Americans ended up with assets that are worth far less than what they've indebted themselves to buy them. Many people don't have a fallback of savings. Now the government wants to prolong this unsustainable economic model by GIVING people more money and asking them to SPEND it. Ahhh! If the government were being completely smart (and necessarily harsh) about this, they would not be giving us handouts. They would be investing some of that money to incentivize us to SAVE MONEY. They should be telling us to not buy things that we cannot afford!

Posted 3 years ago #
drew

Login to Send PM

Mercurius wrote That doesn't include unfunded mandates like Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare.
from Wiki
this figure rises to a total of $59.1 trillion, or $516,348 per household
F*!k

Posted 3 years ago #
Hael

Login to Send PM

yeah, sometimes it feels like our currency is about as real as Monopoly money.
Idiots Rule right now.

Posted 3 years ago #
turnedNOTburned
Grandview/Columbus, Ohio
Login to Send PM

joev wrote The reason our economic growth had been so strong until now was because Americans had a NEGATIVE savings rate. They spent more than they earned. The reason this crisis has been so deep is because Americans ended up with assets that are worth far less than what they've indebted themselves to buy them.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/news/rainy.day.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008101614
..in concert with,
I read this the other day. To Paraphrase, the article points to the first increase in consumer saving in decades, rising from 1% to 3%. (most other mature nations save close to 10% of their income).
I could see people setting on their wallets being a painful thing, but, if the net effect is people starting to save and actually CORRECT their spending habits, I'm all for it. Isn't this one of the fundamental problems that needs fixing? Less Credit, more savings? Admittedly, I started putting back 15% in July in preparation for what was coming. Its been an "adjustment", but, now that I'm used to it, the changes seem minor. Once I erase my remaining credit card debt in the spring, I'll ratchet it up to 35% (18% going into 401k). Honestly, I wish I had a few thousand to invest right now...
- Devo

Posted 3 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
Login to Send PM

I'm equally disgusted by Obama's support of this "stimulus check" and McCain's proposed buyout of misvalued mortgages. A pox on both their houses.

Posted 3 years ago #
turnedNOTburned
Grandview/Columbus, Ohio
Login to Send PM

Mercurius wrote That doesn't include unfunded mandates like Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare.
from Wiki
this figure rises to a total of $59.1 trillion, or $516,348 per household
I've always wondered where these numbers come from (as in the source, not the preparation) - are these bonds, or loans from offshore, etc? It feels like accounting "funny money" (like reserves), that exists on the books as debt, but, doesn't reflect the value of the assets its up against - I dunno, just trying to validate and understand the number. For example, will we get any money back from oil revenues in the Iraq war?
Didn't Clinton finally get a somewhat balanced budget and get the deficit down? How did we go so far astray?

Posted 3 years ago #
brothermarcus
West Siiiide
Login to Send PM

Yeah, I've stripped down my economics recently and eliminated just about everything that wasn't a necessity from my budget and started saving like mad... I don't see a stimulus check as a good thing whatsoever, and disagree with any increases for social services programs when the trend (especially in Ohio) has been less individual accountability and workfare lately.

Posted 3 years ago #
lifeliberty
Here
Login to Send PM

I'm doing alright money-wise. I welcome any money the govt wants to give me. I know I won't be getting any money from SS, so I'll take whatever I can get now.

Posted 3 years ago #
turnedNOTburned
Grandview/Columbus, Ohio
Login to Send PM

Mercurius wrote U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 21 Oct 2008 at 03:17:55 PM GMT is:
How many additional years would the "Baby boomers" have to work to pay this off? Lets make them do it and hold Social Security hostage. We could probably out vote'em... LOL

Posted 3 years ago #
chivespa1

Login to Send PM

I'm equally glad to see I'm not the only one who things this is a backwards way of trying to solve a problem.

Posted 3 years ago #
gramarye
In Exile
Login to Send PM

Mercurius wrote That doesn't include unfunded mandates like Medicaid, Social Security, Medicare.
from Wiki
this figure rises to a total of $59.1 trillion, or $516,348 per household
This figure is the total projected figure over time, however. For some of those projections, I believe the total is over 75 years. Social security isn't actually going to go red until sometime around 2040. (Medicare is in worse shape--projected insolvency date 2019.) It's true that we've made a lot of promises that current revenues won't cover, but that doesn't mean that our actual national debt should properly reflect all those future liabilities today. the $10 trillion figure is bad enough and is realized, not just projected, i.e., it represents what we've already spent in excess of what we've taken in.
Unfortunately, talking about paying off debts is bad politics, because it has no recognizable constituency. In practical terms, it's everyone's third or fourth priority when everyone only cares about their top two. That's how you get lip service. "Yes, paying off the debt is important, but universal health care is more important." "It would be great to be able to reduce the deficit, but we're fighting a war." No one is actively against paying it down the way people are actively for and against abortion rights, the war, universal healthcare, rail construction, etc. A few rare deficit hawks remain in Congress, but they're an endangered species.

Posted 3 years ago #
turnedNOTburned
Grandview/Columbus, Ohio
Login to Send PM

chivespa1 wrote I'm equally glad to see I'm not the only one who things this is a backwards way of trying to solve a problem.
Its Our Turn...
Of all the things I take from the Election, the last 8 years, the current Economy, the thing that rings most true with me is that we're going through a Generational Handoff. I've talked about it before on CU - how there is a 25 year pendulum between conservative/liberal that closely follows the average age of the mass populus. Think about it, prohibition, the "50's, The Reagan Era (which is ending now) - all are roughly separated by 25 year spans with liberalism in between. We're on the dawn of the day that democrats will actually BE democrats again, where republicans will be focused on right-sizing government, and less about a moral agenda, where young fresh ideas will replace older outdated philosophies that have outlived their timeliness.
My point is, "Its Our Turn" to accept (actually "forcibly take") our position as caretakers of the planet. It SO reminds me of every Parent-sibling arguement I've ever had on "who knows best". We'll fix the problems, and leave future ones for our children to handle - such is the way of things.
I think the Momentum from the Election is going to be a good launching point... regardless of who is elected.

Posted 3 years ago #
Roland
Victorian Village
Login to Send PM

Wow Devo! 15% savings is aggressive. I feel so irresponsible now.
Personally, I've been investing in Bono pizza.

Posted 3 years ago #
turnedNOTburned
Grandview/Columbus, Ohio
Login to Send PM

Roland wrote Wow Devo! 15% savings is aggressive. I feel so irresponsible now.
Personally, I've been investing in Bono pizza.
Since I haven't reproduced (and y'all should be glad), I have to save extra for the nursing home :)
Raisin ranch - here I come!

Posted 3 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
Login to Send PM

Here's a question I never understood from the past "stimulus" giveaway. Is that check (and this future one, if it happens) going to cause our 2008 tax refunds to be lower by an equal amount? Because that would suck. And it's not really doing anything in that case. And also, what about people who PAY taxes at tax time?
Or is this "free money" - in which case, I also have big problems with it.

Posted 3 years ago #
brothermarcus
West Siiiide
Login to Send PM

turnedNOTburned wrote Since I haven't reproduced (and y'all should be glad), I have to save extra for the nursing home :)
I concur... although in leiu of the nursing home I'm angling for some form of really expensive disastery that results in my untimely demise like mountain climbing or driving too fast on Mulholland or something.

Posted 3 years ago #
L.I. to Buckeye
West side/Galloway
Login to Send PM

turnedNOTburned wrote Am I the only person that DOESN'T want a check from the government to encourage me to spend?
If you don't want yours, I'll take it off your hands! I'm sure I can find a few ways to "reinvest" it in the U.S. economy!!! :D
In all seriousness, what frustrates me about these packages (including the bailout) is the way they try to sell it to the public by making it sound really good and helpful, but never really expand on the ramifications. As was said above, there's no free money. We're going to wind up paying for it somehow.

Posted 3 years ago #