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The Only Way to Give Columbus a True Identity

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Started 5 months ago by Gil Ligg
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Manatee
Granville
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I don't exactly live in Columbus (within 30 mins though). And I've lived all over the US. There are plenty of things I don't like about Columbus. But all in all if you can do more than sit around and complain all day, Columbus is a great place to be a big fish in a small pond, and make big strides in whatever you want.

In Austin and Portland et al, it's harder to do that. Maybe it's the midwest in us. Slow and steady will win the race here. Long after the Richard Florida fad passes, the economy in Columbus will be doing okey dokey. And let's not kid ourselves-- no place in the US right now is really the vanguard of global cool and innovation, as far as I'm concerned.

Posted 5 months ago #
DavidF
Elysium Fields
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jbcmh81 said:
Funny, because everywhere I've ever been (or lived, for that matter) outside of Ohio and the US, people know Columbus. They've either done business there or know people who live there or have at least heard of it. There's no question about where it is or which one it is. I've been constantly surprised by this. And if anything, Columbus suffers not from its own reputation, but for its location within Ohio, which for whatever reason seems to hold a worse view. But no, I've never once encountered a negative view of the city from outsiders... except on forums like this where people who didn't like the city and moved away think they should be taken as objective sources as to what the city needs or is like. As much as you say that the people here are biased, so clearly, are you. No one is glossing over the problems related to Columbus. They're debated and talked about here constantly. But not one uses those problems to bash the city or call it a backward cowtown like someone like yourself feels the need to do. I can only assume that this need arises from dissatisfaction in your own location or some desire to feel superior. Either way, it's not constructive and it's not particularly honest.

+100

Posted 5 months ago #
InnerCore

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No where am I telling anyone not to be happy in Columbus. I've already stated I'm most likely moving back. I wouldn't move back if I didn't think I could be happy here.

I'm pointing out the criticisms and perception from the viewpoint of someone who hasn't lived in Columbus for the last 5 years and what I hear from the people around me.

I was in an MBA prep program that help place people in the top MBA programs. In my cohort there were no people from Ohio. I was able to make friends with people who attended most of the top 20 MBA programs across the nation. NONE of these people saw Columbus as a viable option after graduation. Some people moved to the larger cities (NY, BOS, Chi, LA, etc.) and the ones that didn't were more attracted to cities I've mentioned.

Now you can say you like Columbus and you don't care about the perception of it's identity but that doesn't sound like the way to build a city by saying you don't care about most of the brightest people of the next generation not looking at your city as a viable option.

Now if I've come off like I'm bashing Columbus that's not my intent. No where did I say Columbus was a cow town, just that it's perceived as a cow town. I do also get people that simply mesh Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland together. I also have to tell people that it's the capital. Most people obviously know the pro sports teams in Cincinnati and Cleveland so they usually think it's one of those cities.

Posted 5 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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InnerCore said:
...most great cities really need to have an influx of young creative professionals. And I don't see these people moving here for a host of reasons...

The census disagrees with you.

http://www.columbusunderground.com/urban-columbus-sees-45-gain-in-yps

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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^Wonder If Karl Rove taught math for that MBA prep program.

Posted 5 months ago #
jbcmh81

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InnerCore said:
No where am I telling anyone not to be happy in Columbus. I've already stated I'm most likely moving back. I wouldn't move back if I didn't think I could be happy here.

I'm pointing out the criticisms and perception from the viewpoint of someone who hasn't lived in Columbus for the last 5 years and what I hear from the people around me.

I was in an MBA prep program that help place people in the top MBA programs. In my cohort there were no people from Ohio. I was able to make friends with people who attended most of the top 20 MBA programs across the nation. NONE of these people saw Columbus as a viable option after graduation. Some people moved to the larger cities (NY, BOS, Chi, LA, etc.) and the ones that didn't were more attracted to cities I've mentioned.

Now you can say you like Columbus and you don't care about the perception of it's identity but that doesn't sound like the way to build a city by saying you don't care about most of the brightest people of the next generation not looking at your city as a viable option.

Now if I've come off like I'm bashing Columbus that's not my intent. No where did I say Columbus was a cow town, just that it's perceived as a cow town. I do also get people that simply mesh Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland together. I also have to tell people that it's the capital. Most people obviously know the pro sports teams in Cincinnati and Cleveland so they usually think it's one of those cities.

The people you seem to hang out with sound completely ignorant, to be honest. And I can't imagine that you waste much effort explaining anything to these people beyond your own negative views of the city.

As far as moving back, didn't you already say it's because you have to because of family and you'd rather have them leave instead? Not exactly a glowing endorsement for future happiness, let alone a willingness to see the city as anything but what you already believe.

Posted 5 months ago #
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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InnerCore said:
Now you can say you like Columbus and you don't care about the perception of it's identity but that doesn't sound like the way to build a city by saying you don't care about most of the brightest people of the next generation not looking at your city as a viable option.

I am in no way concerned that the people in Columbus or looking at at Columbus as a viable option are insufficiently bright, talented or innovative. And I also confess myself unconcerned about what MBAs in Florida think of Columbus or even whether or not they know it exists.

It also doesn't bother me that Columbus isn't New York. I used to worry about those type of things in the past, but that was back before Columbus became awesome. Nowadays I figure anyone who doesn't "get it" is just missing out. I pity the fools.

Posted 5 months ago #
InnerCore

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Walker said:
The census disagrees with you.

http://www.columbusunderground.com/urban-columbus-sees-45-gain-in-yps

Were talking about two different things. Columbus' number of young professionals grew in the urban areas. That's not saying that people graduated from a school somewhere else and then moved Columbus. That's saying young professions that live in Columbus are choosing to live in urban area over suburban areas. Which is great.

The Brookings institute did a study of the census data and ranked the cities with the highest net migration of people 25-34. The top 10 were:

1. DC 10,337
2. Houston 10,306
3. Denver 9,457
4. Portland 8,249
5. Austin 7,774
6. Dallas 6,714
7. Riverside 6,299
8. Seattle 4,478
9. San Antonio 3,796
10 Charlotte 2,835

http://www.brookings.edu/research/expert-qa/2012/11/20-frey-qa

They also have the highest net migration of college graduates. Its a pretty similar list.

I think its great that more young professional are choosing the urban core. It's a trend that is happening across the nation. When I move back I'll be adding to that trend. But lets not use our rose colored glasses to shade the truth. By and large young professionals not already in Columbus are not choosing to move to Columbus.

Posted 5 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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InnerCore said:
By and large young professionals not already in Columbus are not choosing to move to Columbus.

Well, you provided data showing that Columbus was not in the top 10 of that list of young people moving here in that age bracket. But was Columbus #11 or #100? I'm not seeing a complete list linked anywhere.

It's also worth considering that Columbus probably has a higher population of net migration in the 18-22 bracket for college students with our high number of university enrollments per capita. So perhaps they're not coming here in the numbers you'd like to see post college graduation, but are receiving their degrees here and possibly staying.

As mentioned in another thread this evening, the overall population in Columbus is continuing to grow at a rate of 10-12% per decade, which is healthy (especially compared to our midwestern or rust belt peers). The median age in Columbus is 31, which is considerably lower than the national average of 36.8.

We could probably keep trading facts and data and links (which is always fun IMHO), but it sounds like you're convinced that Columbus is exactly what you've already decided it is from afar. ;)

Posted 5 months ago #
InnerCore

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jbcmh81 said:
The people you seem to hang out with sound completely ignorant, to be honest. And I can't imagine that you waste much effort explaining anything to these people beyond your own negative views of the city.

As far as moving back, didn't you already say it's because you have to because of family and you'd rather have them leave instead? Not exactly a glowing endorsement for future happiness, let alone a willingness to see the city as anything but what you already believe.

Wow, the people I hang out with sound ignorant because they don't know about Columbus?? Okay. And my comment about moving my entire family was obviously tongue in cheek. I talking about things like net migration of young professionals and your commenting about my happiness???

It's not that serious.

Look, I lived in Columbus until I was 18. Left to go into the military, then moved back to go to the Ohio State. I then moved out of the state not because I didn't like it but because I got a job offer in DC. I'm proud of where I grew up and have decided to move back to have my kids grow up with their families. Yeah I'd prefer they lived here, but whatever. I'd also prefer I hit the powerball.

I root for the Buckeyes (even while attending the University of Miami). Came back to Columbus to have my wedding here (Via Vecchia). And when I move I'll probably defend it to the death like most here. However when you move away and get used to hearing and seeing the criticism of your home city it allows you to not take the criticism so personal.

You can be happy living in Columbus while at the same rime recognize that because no one is really used to taking the metro they don't see a need for it. You can be happy that local people are deciding to move to the urban core while at the same time recognizing that were losing out on a lot of the top young professionals to other cities.

I live downtown, can walk to the grocery store, restaurant bar, museums and catch a heat game. But I'll be the first one to tell you that the people here in Miami are complete @ssholes and the traffic is completely insane. I go to the grocery store and no one speaks english. I'm sure there is a guy in a forum right now dumping on Miami. I'm not going to go into the thread and tell he that the traffic really isn't that bad. I'm going to agree and talk about what can be done to change it.

Posted 5 months ago #
InnerCore

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Walker said:
Well, you provided data showing that Columbus was not in the top 10 of that list of young people moving here in that age bracket. But was Columbus #11 or #100? I'm not seeing a complete list linked anywhere.

It's also worth considering that Columbus probably has a higher population of net migration in the 18-22 bracket for college students with our high number of university enrollments per capita. So perhaps they're not coming here in the numbers you'd like to see post college graduation, but are receiving their degrees here and possibly staying.

As mentioned in another thread this evening, the overall population in Columbus is continuing to grow at a rate of 10-12% per decade, which is healthy (especially compared to our midwestern or rust belt peers). The median age in Columbus is 31, which is considerably lower than the national average of 36.8.

We could probably keep trading facts and data and links (which is always fun IMHO), but it sounds like you're convinced that Columbus is exactly what you've already decided it is from afar. ;)

To be honest I couldn't find the rest of the list either. I do think Ohio universities do a great job of keeping the people attending the local schools to stay here.

And no I'm not convinced of anything. I just think people here something they don't like on the internet and the jump on it. I'm pretty sure if most of us were having this discussion in person it would go a lot different. But hey, its the internet.

Posted 5 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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I'm going to agree and talk about what can be done to change it.

Obviously you haven't spent much time on here if you're claiming some element of group think and Columbus homerism simply because people disagree with your opinion.

Posted 5 months ago #
somthame

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I find Gil's post quite interesting. It seems to have brought about a lot of response from readers. What intrigues me is that he claims to have only recently moved into the city and he is just starting to settle in. This is odd considering that he uses the "cowtown" reference and if he's new to the city, how does he know it has lost its "cowtown" look. He's familiar with the names Mike Brown and Guy Worley, he's critical about Columbus Commons, and the development of the Scioto Peninsula. These are strange comments from someone who is new to the city. I suspect that Gil is not who he says he is. He sounds to me like a Tea-bagger with a hidden agenda that being the bashing of the Coleman Administration. There is nothing wrong with political disagreement Gil but don't hide behind a persona. One might suspect that you could have been one of those rude party-crashers at the opening of the Scioto Mile carrying protest signs with words such as "whoremongers" on them even though that event was filled with children. My intentions here are not to be rude but I'm just reading between the lines.

Posted 5 months ago #
Coy
Discovery District
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Gil Ligg said:
Wow. I'm surprised by the defensiveness this post has inspired. I guess people in this city don't give a damn what Richard Florida and others have been writing about. It's ironic since the city spent a lot of money to hold a weeklong celebration of innovation, even inviting Mr. Florida to speak. Clearly what he has to say has fallen on deaf ears in this city.

When looking to do innovative things one must look to where innovation is happening, which is why I used SF and NYC as an example. Of course Columbus can't be like them, that's not the point. Everyone, even innovators, gets inspiration from others so why not look to the gold standards when searching for inspiration?

Can anyone defend Guy Worley and his company? Show me one example of something they've done that is unique. I've been looking but can't find anything.

I'm not a cynic, just a realist. Columbus is not nearly as innovative as some people on this board suggest. If it was then there would be a resource center for creative people. I guess it's a flaw of human nature but people in most cities get trapped in their little bubble and forget what their city looks like to the outside world.

Also, of course there are many people here doing awesome things, but that means nothing b/c the infrastructure and support systems to create a thriving creative class here is mediocre at best.

Jesus, you come on here spouting off old, tired Florida and disrespect Columbus cause we're not forward thinking enough?
The 10+ year old quotes from Richard Florida didn't help Wonderland very well the first time around, so what was your role with them back then and why didn't you get the message? Seem to remember you posting your first posts in that thread specifically, coincidently:

Gil Ligg said:
Whoa. I'm new to Columbus and just came across this posting. Holy cow. I don't even know where to begin.

So...is this project dead or alive? This is so bizarre. Was this Columbus' only hope to become the "indie art capital of the world"? Why didn't they get the building?

I'm sorry, but this Wonderland stuff is quite confusing from an outsider perspective. I had a much different impression of the creative community in this town before reading about this Wonderland thing. Sorry, but this has soured my view a little.

For the size of Columbus and all the good things I heard about its creative scene, I thought it would have at least 2 or 3 places like Wonderland.

I hope incidents like this Wonderland thing aren't the norm for the creative community here or else I might have to look to relocate again. That would suck b/c I had high hopes before moving here, but this has me worried if this is typical.

You've been here a few months and the only project you choose to focus on is one thats been dead for at least a year, all while writing in the specific overused language that the project initially latched onto and continue to seem to reference it...
You know about Guy Worley, but not 400 West Rich, the Dudelocker, Short North Stage, GCAC, or any number of cultural happenings in the city.

I'm with somthame... I smell a rat.

In the interest of the city, tho, if anyone else wants to see how a proper nonprofit arts organization is created and developed, go speak to the folks from the Short North Stage.
That's a professional organization just starting up with all kinds of good in the works and done properly.

Posted 5 months ago #
Graybeak
Hunky Town
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Coy said:

In the interest of the city, tho, if anyone else wants to see how a proper nonprofit arts organization is created and developed, go speak to the folks from the Short North Stage.
That's a professional organization just starting up with all kinds of good in the works and done properly.

There are plenty of those. SNS is one, MadLab Theatre is another, with an exciting story of building rehabilitation and rebirth.

Posted 5 months ago #
groundrules

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InnerCore said:

Look, I lived in Columbus until I was 18. Left to go into the military, then moved back to go to the Ohio State. I then moved out of the state not because I didn't like it but because I got a job offer in DC. I'm proud of where I grew up and have decided to move back to have my kids grow up with their families. Yeah I'd prefer they lived here, but whatever. I'd also prefer I hit the powerball.

so you've never lived here as an adult, outside the confines of the academic nest. tells me you really don't have a lot of perspective on what it's like to LIVE here.

related:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-dearborn/midwest-startups_b_2218870.html

Posted 5 months ago #
dubdave00
Dublin
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InnerCore said:
The Brookings institute did a study of the census data and ranked the cities with the highest net migration of people 25-34. The top 10 were:
1. DC 10,337
2. Houston 10,306
3. Denver 9,457
4. Portland 8,249
5. Austin 7,774
6. Dallas 6,714
7. Riverside 6,299
8. Seattle 4,478
9. San Antonio 3,796
10 Charlotte 2,835

I think one of the cool things about Columbus these days is that we're increasingly recognizing that other cities can do cool things too and not jump to conclusions that we're irrelevant and dying.

We may not always be Top 10 or 15 but we're certainly not the bottom 50 and we're steadily rising. I think most of us here are excited or at the very least, content with that.

Posted 5 months ago #
InnerCore

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groundrules said:
so you've never lived here as an adult, outside the confines of the academic nest. tells me you really don't have a lot of perspective on what it's like to LIVE here.

related:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-dearborn/midwest-startups_b_2218870.html

I lived here until I was 18 and then came back and lived here from 22 - 28 and I don't have perspective of what it's like to live here???? Where should I have perspective then. because I've lived (as an adult) in Columbus more than anywhere else.

Regardless of which, I don't think you need perspective to discuss things like migration of young professionals and why there isn't better public transportation in a city.

Posted 5 months ago #
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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Just to be fair to InnerCore, many of things I'm most excited about locally have been within the last five years. Five years ago there was no Scioto Mile, no Franklin Park garden campus, no Independents' Day, no Columbus Invitational, No Columbus Commons, no 400 West, no Solay Bistro, no Dinin' Hall, no Columbus Food Adventures, no 83 Gallery. Taco trucks weren't all over the city, Jeni's hadn't gone national. If I'm not mistaken, Gay St was still one way. The Lincoln Theater hadn't yet been renovated. No Angry Baker, Yellow Brick Pizza or Olde Towne Tavern. No Parsons Ave Arts District. No Small Business Beanstalk. If ECDI, Experience Columbus and the Pearl Market were around back then, they had a much lower profile. The arches, the SN Cap, the Campus Gateway, Ganther's Place and the African Village Festival were all still brand new. CU was still relatively underground. Record stores were closing, not opening. Franklinton and the King Lincoln District hadn't yet started their revivals.

So if I had left here five years ago, my perspective on the city might be very different. And if I had just arrived yesterday, I might not have any sense of how rapidly the city is changing.

Posted 5 months ago #
Rockmastermike
The Bacon District
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ChrisSunami said:
So if I had left here five years ago, my perspective on the city might be very different. And if I had just arrived yesterday, I might not have any sense of how rapidly the city is changing.

correct. The changes in the last 10 years have been dramatic (especially given the previous long term stagnation). But, the growth (especially downtown) in the last 3-4 years has been absolutely remarkable.

Posted 5 months ago #