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The Only Way to Give Columbus a True Identity

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This topic contains 345 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Gil Ligg 1 year, 3 months ago.

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  • #521898

    InnerCore
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    Walker said:
    It does send a signal, but as I said before, for many people it’s not necessarily a dealbreaker. In a lot of the hot cities for young creative types that you mention, rail systems are relatively new and not even widely used (yet) by the cities as a whole. Only 10 cities in the US have a transit ridership rate above 25%:

    Honestly many cities don’t need to be that high. 25% is a huge number. When you look at people 18 – 44, the prime age for people going to college, working, going out, etc., that’s about 36% of the population.

    Walker said:
    The chart below is a bit dated (from 2008) but Columbus isn’t really that far behind Dallas, Houston, San Jose, Phoenix, Austin or Denver in terms of transit usage. Less than 10% of all of these cities commute by public transit.

    Again this is really an apples and oranges debate. In Denver millennials make up 15% of the population. I’ve read reports that millennials have been driving less than adults at 4 times the rate. And were not just talking low income people forced to take public transit because of the economy. Between 2001 and 2009 the number of young people with incomes over $70k using public transit increased 100%.

    There is going to be a large section of the population that public transit doesn’t appeal to in any city. But I don’t think millennials are moving to place based on the percentage of people using public transit, but rather what areas have access to quality public transit that gets them easily to the places they want to go.

    I think if you google best cities with public transit of course NY, DC, Boston are going to be at the top. But Denver, Portland, Austin, etc. are going to fall on that list as well.

    So you have Denver with the highest net migration of millennials who are the biggest users of public transit, while at the same time they are currently investing $6 Billion into the FasTrack program that is adding 122 miles of commuter and light rail.

    I’m sure Columbus will get in the game eventually but they’re really losing ground to cities that a creating the infrastructure of the future.

    Walker said:
    But, if moving to a city where rail-based public transit is easily accessible is the #1 priority for someone, they’re pretty left looking at the biggest cities as their top choices… NYC, DC, SF, Boston and Chicago.

    I don’t think people sit and make a list of what places have light rail and then move to those cities. I think they look for cities with urban, walkable environments that have easy access to places they want to go. These things are easy to provide in cities with rail because the development is naturally occurring around the transit stations. Transit Oriented Developments (TOD) is pretty much the new black. Look at the curriculum and any school with a real estate program and its all about TOD and urbanism.

    If you go back to that real estate outlook report I provided and look at the top cities for investment and development you’ll see they are all cities with good transit. That’s because the bulk developments that are getting built right now are happening near existing transit locations.

    #521899

    wynnie
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    Whaddya mean Columbus doesn’t have an identity??? Here it is!

    From today’s Dispatch:

    “Racetrack attracts NASCAR team. Michael Waltrip to be part of West Side auto-research center at stadium site”

    Yee Haw!!!

    #521900

    InnerCore
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    I’d also point out the as a city Columbus isn’t project to do great among increase in millennial over the next 10 years. I know there has been growth among that age group downtown but that is more of a redistribution from the suburbs than actual growth.

    On page 90 there is a break down of the 51 markets with statistics from the U.S. census and projections from Moody Analytics and PwC. The projected 10 yr growth of millennials for the entire is U.S. is about 10%. The projected growth in Columbus is 6%. So Columbus is well below the average. And Cleveland is -4% and Detroit is -12%. So basically our below average growth rate will be mainly people escaping nearby poor economies. Without the negative conditions in nearby cities Columbus would more than likely be flat or declining as well.

    When you look at some of the other cities, you get Houston (21%), Denver (14%), Austin (25%), Raleigh/Durham (20%), Charlotte (15%).

    I think the people fleeing the poorer performing cities is masking the larger structural and identity problems Columbus has. Without the help from these cities I think it would be apparent and create an environment more conducive to getting rail approved out of a need to at least keep pace.

    #521901
    DavidF
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    So growth is a problem because it’s not the cool kids we’re getting?

    Still trying to find an actual problem here.

    #521902
    Caleb
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    I find this whole conversation absurd, but hilarious. I am popping popcorn, anyone want some?

    #521903

    InnerCore
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    DavidF said:
    So growth is a problem because it’s not the cool kids we’re getting?

    Still trying to find an actual problem here.

    I think I pointed out that our growth is less than average. Pretty much the only cities to not grow are Cleveland, Detriot, Pittsburgh and New Orleans. Notice a pattern?

    And it’s not about being cool or not. Would you rather a situation where your city is attracting young upwardly mobile people from all across the nation because they choose to be in your city or a situation where the main source of growth is from people stuck in nearby failing cities who are fleeing in hopes of just finding a job in the next closest city?

    And what happens if the economies in these cities somehow get better. That pretty much cuts of the little growth that your city had.

    #521904
    Walker Evans
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    InnerCore said:
    And it’s not about being cool or not. Would you rather a situation where your city is attracting young upwardly mobile people from all across the nation because they choose to be in your city or a situation where the main source of growth is from people stuck in nearby failing cities who are fleeing in hopes of just finding a job in the next closest city?

    Either way, I’m probably just going to continue to enjoy where I live for the reasons that I enjoy living here.

    I hope that once you arrive you get involved with some local organizations (a fairly easy thing to do) to help with some of the changes you describe. You’re certainly passionate about all of this, so hope to meet you at a CU Happy Hour Meetup in the future. ;)

    #521905
    rus
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    CalebR said:
    I find this whole conversation absurd, but hilarious. I am popping popcorn, anyone want some?

    #521906

    InnerCore
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    Walker said:
    Either way, I’m probably just going to continue to enjoy where I live for the reasons that I enjoy living here.

    I hope that once you arrive you get involved with some local organizations (a fairly easy thing to do) to help with some of the changes you describe. You’re certainly passionate about all of this, so hope to meet you at a CU Happy Hour Meetup in the future. ;)

    Most definitely. I look forward to it. Here in Miami I started a development company with a friend from grad school. You can check out our website here. We focus on small scale urban infill. We’re currently going through the zoning approval process on a site downtown for a small 8 story 45 unit residential building. Were trying to get approval for a couple extra floors and to provide no parking to cut down on construction cost allowing us to rent our units at more affordable prices.

    I’ve flown my partner into Columbus as I’m trying to convince him that we could possible develop here after we finish this project and he was very receptive. We’re apart of similar groups and organizations here as they not only allow us to meet and interact with people that deal with the issues that affect our development and also help keep us abreast of the whats going on which is invaluable in development. You can look at reports all day but at the end of the day where people choose to live and interact is very personal.

    This site seems pretty good for that.

    #521907
    NEOBuckeye
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    Walker said:
    I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Many of the people in key executive offices in other cities, states and at the federal level also belong to the Baby Boomer demographic, and yet, they’re making transit infrastructure a priority.

    I think it’s been turned into more of a partisan issue, if anything.

    I admit that I’m largely going on anecdotal evidence and observation. It would be interesting however to see a more formal analysis of representative demographics (age group, political affiliation) and stance on the issue.

    I also think there may be something to regional differences. New England has maintained what is collectively by far the strongest rail system in the country. I would imagine that support would be strong for it there across generations and party affiliation. Here in the Midwest though, travel options and infrastructure are much more limited and heavily set up in favor of automobile dependency, and have been that way throughout the lives of the current crop of aging government officials (like Kasich). I think there is something to be said for generational influences and experiences, and that there is at least a fairly strong reluctance among the aging crop of current state and local politicians to here in the Midwest to take decisive action on something that they may benefit little from based upon their age (amount of time left on this planet) and investments (e.g. community/location of home).

    I do find it interesting that former Cleveland mayor, senator and Ohio Governor Voinovich, a Republican now in his mid-70s (and part of Tom Brokaw’s “Greatest” Generation, so not a Boomer), did at least consider the possibility of implementing a “temporary” 3Cs rail line during the mid-90s when both the Indians and Reds seemed to have a legitimate chance of facing each other in the World Series. Voinovich obviously had access to light rail in CLE and was the last governor to have been substantially involved in city life and politics as a mayor. Kasich, as everyone knows, couldn’t even be bothered to move from his home in Westerville to the governor’s mansion in Bexley. It’s unfortunate that he appears to have a lack of appreciation for life and living in the city center and that this has substantially influenced his policy choices[/url].

    #521908
    buckeye54
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    InnerCore said:
    I’d also point out the as a city Columbus isn’t project to do great among increase in millennial over the next 10 years. I know there has been growth among that age group downtown but that is more of a redistribution from the suburbs than actual growth.

    On page 90 there is a break down of the 51 markets with statistics from the U.S. census and projections from Moody Analytics and PwC. The projected 10 yr growth of millennials for the entire is U.S. is about 10%. The projected growth in Columbus is 6%. So Columbus is well below the average. And Cleveland is -4% and Detroit is -12%. So basically our below average growth rate will be mainly people escaping nearby poor economies. Without the negative conditions in nearby cities Columbus would more than likely be flat or declining as well.

    When you look at some of the other cities, you get Houston (21%), Denver (14%), Austin (25%), Raleigh/Durham (20%), Charlotte (15%).

    I think the people fleeing the poorer performing cities is masking the larger structural and identity problems Columbus has. Without the help from these cities I think it would be apparent and create an environment more conducive to getting rail approved out of a need to at least keep pace.

    I would like to point out that the population density of columbus exceeds austin and far exceeds charlotte and raleigh. Like to the tune of almost 1100 more people per square mile compared to charlotte. This narrative that millennials are flocking to the sun belt cities because they somehow have all these more urban walkable areas compared to columbus is a fallacy. They are going there for climate and jobs and it certainly doesn’t hurt that you have at least 3 large universities in the raleigh durham region as well.I’m sure most people think walkable areas are great but if you don’t have jobs then you better have something really awesome like the ocean or mountains or else people are going to show up and then leave.

    #521909

    columbusmike
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    buckeye54 said:
    I’m sure most people think walkable areas are great but if you don’t have jobs then you better have something really awesome like the ocean or mountains or else people are going to show up and then leave.

    And if you don’t have oceans or mountains (or even hills) you better make sure the built environment is really breathtaking.

    #521910

    InnerCore
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    Migration maps from various cities. The blue lines are place where they’re gaining people from and the red lines are the places they’re losing people to:

    Columbus

    Austin

    Denver

    If it’s just weather then why are these cities gaining people from places with better weather. And last time I check Denver has had mountains for a long time. So why now are young people just recently starting to flock there?

    I don’t disagree that jobs definitely has a lot to do with it. But I don’t think that is the only reason. Escpecially when this is the sentiment I’m hearing:

    “This Millennial generation is the generation that decides where it’s going to live before it decides what it’s going to do,” says William Fulton, president of policy and research at Smart Growth America, a non-profit national coalition against suburban sprawl.

    A lot of these people are moving to these cities because they want to live there, and that is spurring job growth.

    #521911

    myliftkk
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    Pretty sure the legalization of a certain substance helped push Denver over the top…

    #521912
    byJody
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    Walker said:
    Complaining about City Center… taking a shot at Mike Brown (do you even know what he does these days?)… sounds like you’ve lived here for much longer than a few months with this type of complaining.

    Thanks Walker, yes what this city needs is more outsiders moving here and telling us how to be hip. Enough already. When he said we should have kept City Center? Oh geez, wtf?

    I have lived here for all my 46 years and I am happy with the positive progress, especially the last 4 years or so. We are past quick fix slogans and buzz words, the city is coming into its own and not trying to be a Charlotte, Austin, Chicago, we are ColumbUS! We are making real and lasting progress. To criticize the efforts of Guy Worley as not innovative? How about having Crew teams rowing on the Scioto? He removed the barriers to that happening! I guess our progress is not obvious to the uninitiated, but to this long time resident, I think we are making great strides. The sore thumb is something he did not mention, the city school system, but that too is about to get a makeover.

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