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The Columbus-Cleveland Rivalry

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Started 3 months ago by Walker
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Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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The Columbus-Cleveland Rivalry
24 JANUARY 2012

When I’m meeting new people from Cleveland it generally comes up relatively soon in the conversation that I am from Columbus. Generally, this inspires one of two reactions:

#1. Wow, Columbus is so cool. (Cleveland sucks, etc.) This is less common, actually. And I get where people are coming from. There’s a lot more young people in Columbus, a lot more restaurants opening, a lot more money, for lack of a better term, etc.

#2. Oh, Columbus. Columbus is so white/boring, or some variation thereof. A lot of times, it goes like this: oh, well Columbus would be nothing if it wasn’t for Ohio State/the State Capital.

READ MORE: http://rustwire.com/2012/01/24/the-columbus-cleveland-rivalry/

Posted 3 months ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

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I wish we had a modern museum, with a cool design. Other than that, I think Columbus is Cooler than Cleveland.

Posted 3 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Pickerington_Kyle said:
I wish we had a modern museum, with a cool design.

We already have one.

http://wexarts.org

Posted 3 months ago #
cheap
Westgate
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Cleveland/Northeast Ohio is a totally different world than Columbus.

i do not see any rivalry at all.

Posted 3 months ago #
leftovers

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^ have to agree. I grew up in the Cleveland area and it seemed there was more of a rivalry with fellow manufacturing rustbelt cities - namely Pittsburgh. Columbus was pretty much off the radar.

Posted 3 months ago #
meltsintowonder

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Yes, we have one of the top contemporary art museums in the country, yet most of Columbus doesn't know it. That says something.

Columbus is awesome. Cleveland is awesome. Pittsburgh is awesome. Fortunately, they're very different. If every city tried to mimic the personality and offering of other cities, traveling to these other cities would be pretty mundane. I like how we preach (I do myself) that Columbus needs this or that to be at another level (or like another city), but we should never try to be something we're not. Forced, fake, trendy.

Posted 3 months ago #
Navin R Johnson

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Walker said:

A lot of times, it goes like this: oh, well Columbus would be nothing if it wasn’t for Ohio State/the State Capital.[/i]

And they would be right.

Posted 3 months ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

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Not like this

Walker said:
We already have one.

http://wexarts.org

Posted 3 months ago #
NerosNeptune
Goodale Park
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I'll take the wexner center over that outdated-before-it-was-even-finished hunk of scrap metal design any day.

If you really want to see a cool design check this out:

Posted 3 months ago #
jbcmh81

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It's not so prevalent here (and maybe not in real life interactions so much either), but in some urban forums, there is a very strong rivalry. It seems to generally be Clevelanders bashing Columbus. In my own experience, there are many who simply feel that Columbus is sucking the life out of the rest of the state, but in particular, Cleveland. I do think there is a general sense that Columbus has succeeded on the backs of other Ohio cities, yet Columbus doesn't deserve it because it's not seen as urban in comparison. Columbus is easily the strongest city/metro in the state. It has the lowest unemployment, the most diversified economy, one of the strongest population growth rates in the Midwest and Northeast (and even up there with some Sun Belt regions), but at the same time, it's lacking certain things that urban-oriented people expect to see in a large city that a city like Cleveland has. These would include a large art culture, mass transit and other cultural amenities like museums and theater. I know Columbus has some of this, but it tends to be smaller and less well known. I always have thought that Columbus wants to be a big city... but also doesn't, and many residents certainly don't believe it is. Clevelanders at least see their city as urban and want those important urban qualities, but at the same time, many there are definitely under the impression that it's still a city of 914,000 and far more important than what reality has reduced it to.

Posted 3 months ago #
jbcmh81

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Navin R Johnson said:
And they would be right.

Why would they be right? There are plenty of successful cities without large universities or state government. We really have no idea what kind of future Columbus would've had had it not been for those things, but you can't honestly say it would necessarily be negative. Besides, you can use this reasoning for any city, including Cleveland. What would've happened to Cleveland had it not been built on Lake Erie? What if the Cleveland Clinic didn't exist? Also, considering Columbus didn't even exist until it was specifically laid out to be the state capital, it's hard to separate the two, anyway.

Posted 3 months ago #
rus

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Cleveland's main claim to fame today is that it's not Detroit. Yet.

Posted 3 months ago #
BuckeyeShadow
Behind that Buckeye Tree
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jbcmh81 said:
Columbus is easily the strongest city/metro in the state. It has the lowest unemployment, the most diversified economy, one of the strongest population growth rates in the Midwest and Northeast (and even up there with some Sun Belt regions), but at the same time, it's lacking certain things that urban-oriented people expect to see in a large city that a city like Cleveland has. These would include a large art culture, mass transit and other cultural amenities like museums and theater.

Columbus is lacking in cultural amenities? Hmm... Let's see... we've got The Wex, COSI, The Ohio Historical Center, The Southern Theater, The Ohio Theater, The Palace Theater, Riffe, Shadowbox Live, the Columbus Museum of Art, etc...

Between the Short North, Franklinton, King-Lincoln, and the Discovery District, I'd say we have a pretty lively and growing arts & cultural scene that would go toe-to-toe with any other major city.

As others have said, I don't see much comparison or rivalry between Columbus and Cleveland. Cleveland and Pittsburgh definitely have a deep rivalry since they are traditional rust belt towns with close economic ties and fortunes, and a deep if lopsided NFL franchise rivalry.

I think with Cleveland and Columbus, it's more political than anything. Cleveland was once Ohio's principal city, but they've been on the slide down from that since the 1970s, just as Columbus really began its upward trajectory. Also, most major cities (Chicago, NYC, Indianapolis) don't necessarily have to compete with other major cities--much less their state capital--for resources and attention. Columbus' growth over the past few decades has really shifted that dynamic in Ohio, which I think Cleveland is still smarting from. If Cleveland/NE Ohio broke away to form its own state, Cleveland would likely become its own capital and the "rivalry" with Columbus would likely cease.

Posted 3 months ago #
ehill27
Short North
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meltsintowonder said:
Yes, we have one of the top contemporary art museums in the country, yet most of Columbus doesn't know it.

Unfortunately, the Wex was placed at the university. Giving the sense that it's a university asset, rather than a CBus asset.

(I realize the university is a CBus asset, but you understand what I'm getting at.)

Posted 3 months ago #
jbcmh81

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BuckeyeShadow said:
Columbus is lacking in cultural amenities? Hmm... Let's see... we've got The Wex, COSI, The Ohio Historical Center, The Southern Theater, The Ohio Theater, The Palace Theater, Riffe, Shadowbox Live, the Columbus Museum of Art, etc...

Between the Short North, Franklinton, King-Lincoln, and the Discovery District, I'd say we have a pretty lively and growing arts & cultural scene that would go toe-to-toe with any other major city.

As others have said, I don't see much comparison or rivalry between Columbus and Cleveland. Cleveland and Pittsburgh definitely have a deep rivalry since they are traditional rust belt towns with close economic ties and fortunes, and a deep if lopsided NFL franchise rivalry.

I think with Cleveland and Columbus, it's more political than anything. Cleveland was once Ohio's principal city, but they've been on the slide down from that since the 1970s, just as Columbus really began its upward trajectory. Also, most major cities (Chicago, NYC, Indianapolis) don't necessarily have to compete with other major cities--much less their state capital--for resources and attention. Columbus' growth over the past few decades has really shifted that dynamic in Ohio, which I think Cleveland is still smarting from. If Cleveland/NE Ohio broke away to form its own state, Cleveland would likely become its own capital and the "rivalry" with Columbus would likely cease.

You must've missed where I said Columbus had some cultural amenities, but in general they tend to be either less well-known or a lower priority overall than in other large cities. As has been mentioned recently, Columbus is one of the largest cities without public art funding. The city has some good things, but I do think it is definitely lacking compared to where it should be.

Cleveland is not leaving the state. I see people from Cleveland talking about this only because they're under the assumption that all their problems come from the success of Columbus. Many Cleveland residents seem to refuse any responsibility for their own past and future.

Posted 3 months ago #
CbusIslander
Cbus Islander
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I think with Cleveland and Columbus, it's more political than anything. Cleveland was once Ohio's principal city, but they've been on the slide down from that since the 1970s, just as Columbus really began its upward trajectory. Also, most major cities (Chicago, NYC, Indianapolis) don't necessarily have to compete with other major cities--much less their state capital--for resources and attention. Columbus' growth over the past few decades has really shifted that dynamic in Ohio, which I think Cleveland is still smarting from. If Cleveland/NE Ohio broke away to form its own state, Cleveland would likely become its own capital and the "rivalry" with Columbus would likely cease.

Clevelanders has yet to realize the economic and demographic shift in Ohio south of I-80. Cincy metro population passed Cleveland's metro this past census and they still think the numbers are flawed. Columbus is viewed as a annexing beast that basically added existing cities into our population figures causing more flawed data.

Even if Columbus is just state and OSU, Clevelanders don't realize that Cleveland Clinic's employee base equals the State and OSU's combined. Even today NEO is fragmented politically and aging population will cause more of the same over the next few census counts. Yet they will still argue our gains are from their losses.

Cleveland has the old money from a century ago to develop its art institutions while Columbus has new money and will take awhile for our art institutions to mature.

Posted 3 months ago #
dru
IV
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Pickerington_Kyle said:
I wish we had a modern museum, with a cool design.

Walker said:
We already have one.

http://wexarts.org

and Columbus is getting a new home for this:
http://www.pizzuticollection.com/

Posted 3 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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jbcmh81 said:
Columbus is one of the largest cities without public art funding.

A portion of the bed tax (hotels) goes to GCAC, which funds the local arts. Are you not counting that, or referring to a different type of system?

Posted 3 months ago #
jbcmh81

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CbusIslander said:
Clevelanders has yet to realize the economic and demographic shift in Ohio south of I-80. Cincy metro population passed Cleveland's metro this past census and they still think the numbers are flawed. Columbus is viewed as a annexing beast that basically added existing cities into our population figures causing more flawed data.

Even if Columbus is just state and OSU, Clevelanders don't realize that Cleveland Clinic's employee base equals the State and OSU's combined. Even today NEO is fragmented politically and aging population will cause more of the same over the next few census counts. Yet they will still argue our gains are from their losses.

Cleveland has the old money from a century ago to develop its art institutions while Columbus has new money and will take awhile for our art institutions to mature.

Well, at least in one way, Cleveland's losses ARE Columbus' gain. The Cleveland metro and Northeast Ohio are a big population feeder for Columbus.

Posted 3 months ago #
jbcmh81

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Walker said:
A portion of the bed tax (hotels) goes to GCAC, which funds the local arts. Are you not counting that, or referring to a different type of system?

Wasn't there discussion not too long ago about Columbus lacking public art funding? I'm not necessarily referring to arts groups.

Posted 3 months ago #