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You have to be able to dedicate the time and be able to attend the meetings and also be educated about them. It is harder for some segments than others and the demograghic drawn into such circles may not represent the nieghborhood. I am not against them, but I do believe they may represent a minority opinion and have an agenda that may be at odds with a more silent majority.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion
The Awkward Art of Neighborhood Naming
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Twixlen
Westgate, Columbus
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gramarye said:
The fact that the area commissions have de facto veto authority over new development is a serious strike against them, particularly considering that they are not democratically elected. For the purposes of development, they are another layer of bureaucracy beyond the zoning board and health department. In addition, because they are by definition drawn only from current residents (i.e., not prospective residents), they have significant incentives to restrict new development in order to protect insiders. I used to be in favor of disbanding all of them entirely. Posts like SusanB's convince me that they may have some advantages, but I really wish they could be taken out of the development-restriction game entirely. If someone wants to build a 15-story residential tower in Victorian Village, the infrastructure can support it, and the building meets health and safety standards, I universally oppose giving residents veto power over the decisions of the developer with the money ready and able to invest. That's how you get housing shortages downtown, which in turn forces development outward (i.e., sprawl) even when there might well be demand for more living in better urban neighborhoods. The city already has enough gatekeepers.There is so much truth to this. Additionally, Area Commissioners need not even reside in the neighborhood where they're posted - they only need to own property there, creating another layer of complication for the folks that *are* residents, since the interest of non-residing land owners can run totally counter to the interests of those that do.
I *think* what SusanB is referring to, and has had great success with, is a specific neighborhood association/group. Which is a different animal than the Area Commissions. If anything, my experience has shown that the Area Commission will act outside the will of its neighborhood groups, or represent itself to the city inconsistent with the will of its residents, because the interests of the individuals on the Commission are so far flung from those of the residents.
I think a system where individual neighborhood groups - even though there are so many of them - are respected at the city level would be much more impactful.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Twixlen
Westgate, Columbus
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Manatee said:
How is something constituted of volunteers not "democratic"? If you don't like what the neighborhood commission does, then join it and advocate for your opinions. I'm not sure what's more directly democratic than that.I mean, am I missing something here (not being snarky... really am I missing something?)?
The Area Commissions do have voted-on positions. But so much of what they do operates outside of the Sunshine Laws, and the way the voting process takes place can in no way be considered fair/equitable.
What inevitably happens (and again, this is my personal experience), is someone with a vested neighborhood interest gets involved, but they are completely stonewalled by the people who were already there, who like the power that they've managed to accumulate (small tho it may be).
And what leftovers said is true - these things take an enormous amount of time - more time than the average 40-hour-a-week-with-a-family person can manage. So the boards get filled up with retirees, people with political ambitions, folks who may own a business/property in the neighborhood, or who are in some way interested in self-promotion. That isn't to say there aren't some good, hard-working people on the Commissions, because there are - but it's almost impossible for them to be effective.
Posted 4 months ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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Twixlen said:
There is so much truth to this. Additionally, Area Commissioners need not even reside in the neighborhood where they're posted - they only need to own property there, creating another layer of complication for the folks that *are* residents, since the interest of non-residing land owners can run totally counter to the interests of those that do.I *think* what SusanB is referring to, and has had great success with, is a specific neighborhood association/group. Which is a different animal than the Area Commissions. If anything, my experience has shown that the Area Commission will act outside the will of its neighborhood groups, or represent itself to the city inconsistent with the will of its residents, because the interests of the individuals on the Commission are so far flung from those of the residents.
I think a system where individual neighborhood groups - even though there are so many of them - are respected at the city level would be much more impactful.
To the extent that you're drawing a distinction between area commissions and neighborhood associations, however, I would equally oppose giving neighborhood associations de facto veto power over development decisions, however--even just informal veto power by having the actual city government essentially always defer to the decisions of the neighborhood association.
Manatee: The issue is that even if an area commission or neighborhood association is completely open to membership and participation to residents and/or property owners in a given area, that means that insiders get 100% representation and outsiders--prospective residents, prospective business owners, etc.--get none. Insiders often have incentives to restrict development in desirable areas because it drives up the price of real estate already in the area (restricting the supply of housing or commercial space or what have you). That is good for the insiders but bad for the community as a whole.
Posted 4 months ago # -
GCrites80s
5xNW
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Coy <a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic
That being said, it seems to have gotten a little out of hand.
I lived in Schumacher Place (about 2 blocks from the rigid German Village demarcation line), but I had to tell everyone that I lived in GV, or else they had no idea what I was talking about.
Same with Discovery District. It was probably helpful in the creation of this area being a Special Improvements District, but most folks have no idea where it is.
I'm always like "Discov..., nevermind. Downtown, right next to OTE".Just my experience, but most people who say they're from Columbus don't have a clue about all the neighborhood breakdowns.
New folks to town haven't had the media tell them that there's only 6 neighborhoods in the city limits their entire lives. People over 70 know 'em. I've noticed that the paper has been coming around on recognizing neighborhoods, though.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Twixlen
Westgate, Columbus
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gramarye said:
To the extent that you're drawing a distinction between area commissions and neighborhood associations, however, I would equally oppose giving neighborhood associations de facto veto power over development decisions, however--even just informal veto power by having the actual city government essentially always defer to the decisions of the neighborhood association.I actually wasn't thinking in terms of the Commission or neighborhood group having veto power over development/city plans - and agree that there's a diminishing return on them having that ability (I'm thinking of crazy Clintonville, in particular). At the same time - shouldn't the voice of the neighborhood mean something? If a large enough group of residents band together and are for or against something in particular, shouldn't that matter to the city? There has to be some sort of ability for the neighborhood to represent itself.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Manatee
The eternal present
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Yeah, I've got to say guys-- this is really confusing me. If the positions are voted on, how is it not democratic? And some people are complaining that outsiders won't have a voice, while others are saying absentee property owners would have too much of a say. Thanks for trying to explain it to me, but I'm politically challenged-- it's probably best I don't understand certain things :)
I wonder if I have a neighborhood association/commission out here in Alexandria where I live? I have half a mind to poke my nose into one to see what happens. I know the commissioners out in SW Ohio where I lived last year were a bit of a tough bunch-- not very excited about a tax-exempt nature preserve. I'm sure there's probably one in nearby Granville... those folks take their neighborhood seriously!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Twixlen
Westgate, Columbus
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Manatee said:
Yeah, I've got to say guys-- this is really confusing me. If the positions are voted on, how is it not democratic? And some people are complaining that outsiders won't have a voice, while others are saying absentee property owners would have too much of a say. Thanks for trying to explain it to me, but I'm politically challenged-- it's probably best I don't understand certain things :)I wonder if I have a neighborhood association/commission out here in Alexandria where I live? I have half a mind to poke my nose into one to see what happens. I know the commissioners out in SW Ohio where I lived last year were a bit of a tough bunch-- not very excited about a tax-exempt nature preserve. I'm sure there's probably one in nearby Granville... those folks take their neighborhood seriously!
The voting is pretty much a farce. I've witnessed the person running the ballot boxes telling people who to vote for. SO, there's that.
And the divergent opinions are likely different personal experiences with different commissions - and I would say, the only way to fully understand how these things operate (and commissions operate differently than associations/groups), is to be involved in them.
Posted 4 months ago #
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