Sprawl Wake Up Call? « Columbus Underground Messageboard

Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Transit

Sprawl Wake Up Call?

[26 posts] [14 contributors]

Topic Rating:

(Total Ratings: )
Rate this topic:

Started 7 months ago by joshlapp
Latest reply from CalebR

Tags:

12 Next »

joshlapp
SoHud
Login to Send PM

Is it just me or has the Universe been trying to tell Columbus to work on our car dependent transportation system in the past month?

More highway headaches: Tractor-trailer crash closes southbound Rt. 315 near OSU
A tractor-trailer crashed early today, closing a section of southbound Rt. 315 just before the morning rush hour.

The crash occurred around 5:30 a.m. on Rt. 315 just south of Kinnear Road.

GRIDLOCK
Spilled fuel from a tanker-truck crash forced officials to close parts of I-270 and Rt. 161, causing frustrating delays
That much became obvious yesterday when more than 12 miles of the roads, traveled every day by more than 140,000 people, were shut down.

Everyone felt the impact, from kindergartners on up.

Crawlumbus
In fall 2011, the Ohio Department of Transportation begins a $200 million, three-year reconstruction of the interchange between I-71 and I-670, which will close 15 Downtown highway ramps. The closures will affect 137,000 drivers a day, many of whom voted to name the project "Crawlumbus."

Posted 7 months ago #
Snarf
Dystopia
Login to Send PM

Another sprawl thread, cool!

Posted 7 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
Login to Send PM

Snarf said:
Another sprawl thread, cool!

You came to the right place for it! ;)

Posted 7 months ago #
clancy12

Login to Send PM

Walker said:
You came to the right place for it! ;)

That's pretty funny.

Posted 7 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
Login to Send PM

clancy12 said:
That's pretty funny.

Thanks. I try.

Seriously though, I think sometimes it's easy to interchange "sprawl" and "suburbs" when the two aren't necessarily synonyms. There are plenty of suburban areas that have a lot to offer and have been historically built in a manner that is conductive to walkability, sustainability and a strong sense of community.

Sprawl on the other hand is generally more associated with the unsustainable build out of endless strip malls and housing subdivisions that lack any connectivity outside of car travel.

Which means that it's possible to be pro-suburb and anti-sprawl at the same time.

Posted 7 months ago #
joshlapp
SoHud
Login to Send PM

Walker said:
Thanks. I try.

Seriously though, I think sometimes it's easy to interchange "sprawl" and "suburbs" when the two aren't necessarily synonyms. There are plenty of suburban areas that have a lot to offer and have been historically built in a manner that is conductive to walkability, sustainability and a strong sense of community.

Sprawl on the other hand is generally more associated with the unsustainable build out of endless strip malls and housing subdivisions that lack any connectivity outside of car travel.

Which means that it's possible to be pro-suburb and anti-sprawl at the same time.

There are a lot of great suburban areas in Columbus such as Westerville, Old Dublin and Gahanna and Inner Ring areas such as Bexley and Grandview. The problem is that we are putting our economy on the line by now increasing transit access to places like Westerville.

One road shuts down and the entire city is effected for a whole day. What if a bridge collapsed due to lack of maintenance? Or what happened when more of the 70/71 split is shut down? The fact the the vast majority of people commuting only have 1 option. So much for freedom of choice.

Posted 7 months ago #
groundrules

Login to Send PM

joshlapp said:
There are a lot of great suburban areas in Columbus such as Westerville, Old Dublin and Gahanna and Inner Ring areas such as Bexley and Grandview. The problem is that we are putting our economy on the line by now increasing transit access to places like Westerville.

what you're saying is that 'great suburban areas' are the ones that used to be towns in their own right before being usurped by the city. and sprawl is defined as area that used to be cornfield.

Posted 7 months ago #
GCrites80s
5xNW
Login to Send PM

^Essentially, areas developed before zoning laws went into place.

Posted 7 months ago #
joshlapp
SoHud
Login to Send PM

groundrules said:
what you're saying is that 'great suburban areas' are the ones that used to be towns in their own right before being usurped by the city. and sprawl is defined as area that used to be cornfield.

Pretty much.

If there were new developments like this (and there are a few) that would be fine:

This = Bad for Health. Energy. Economy. Life.

Posted 7 months ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
Login to Send PM

joshlapp The fact the the vast majority of people commuting only have 1 option. So much for freedom of choice.

That is just not true. One of the reasons that public transit has not taken strong hold here is that there are so many alternate routes since we have no geographical barriers. N-S we have routes spaced about every couple miles, for example. Columbus has a very resilient traffic network.

A.

Posted 7 months ago #
dubdave00
Dublin
Login to Send PM

joshlapp said:
One road shuts down and the entire city is effected for a whole day. What if a bridge collapsed due to lack of maintenance? Or what happened when more of the 70/71 split is shut down? The fact the the vast majority of people commuting only have 1 option. So much for freedom of choice.

Actually, I think we have a decent road system here. I also think that's what stands in the way of rail-based mass transit or an "explosion" of growth in urban/downtown living. Every time I talk to people about Columbus transportation, I hear, "You can get anywhere in 20 minutes".

Until what happened yesterday becomes a multiple times a week thing, I don't think you'll see the demand. I think it's more likely that gas prices and personal economic conditions will create demand rather than road congestion.

Posted 7 months ago #
cheap
Westgate
Login to Send PM

joshlapp said:

One road shuts down and the entire city is effected for a whole day. What if a bridge collapsed due to lack of maintenance? Or what happened when more of the 70/71 split is shut down? The fact the the vast majority of people commuting only have 1 option. So much for freedom of choice.

JMHO,i don't see any problems you are referring to.

Posted 7 months ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
Login to Send PM

Now that I think about it a little bit, I have to admit to a Northern bias. There are less options coming from the South to downtown. Still, unlike a lot of major metro areas we don't have major water features which create single/few point failures.

A.

Posted 7 months ago #
groundrules

Login to Send PM

dubdave00 said:
Actually, I think we have a decent road system here. I also think that's what stands in the way of rail-based mass transit or an "explosion" of growth in urban/downtown living. Every time I talk to people about Columbus transportation, I hear, "You can get anywhere in 20 minutes".

Until what happened yesterday becomes a multiple times a week thing, I don't think you'll see the demand. I think it's more likely that gas prices and personal economic conditions will create demand rather than road congestion.

truth. was talking about this on sunday. people will be stoked for a train when traffic in columbus is DC bad or Chicago bad. A car is just too easy to deal with around here.

Posted 7 months ago #
Snarf
Dystopia
Login to Send PM

groundrules said:
truth. was talking about this on sunday. people will be stoked for a train when traffic in columbus is DC bad or Chicago bad. A car is just too easy to deal with around here.

which is totally fine :)

Posted 7 months ago #
groundrules

Login to Send PM

Snarf said:
which is totally fine :)

Oh totally agreed. I WANT a train, but I don't NEED a train. And with that in mind, I know I wouldn't use it that often.

Posted 7 months ago #
jpizzow
580 N. Park St.
Login to Send PM

Any type of rail based transit will not be viable in this city until the innermost neighborhoods become dense enough to support it, as well as the development of dense nodes in the outer suburbs (which could spring up BECAUSE of the transit). The overall mindset needs to change as well. We are slowly creeping to that point with the younger generations leading the way. Yes, it is too easy to get anywhere in Columbus with a car, but what will happen when gas hits $4/gallon and beyond. Our development patterns and reliance on personal vehicles are inefficient in so many ways already. It's going to bite us in the arse a decade or two from now. Using a gallon of gas to get a gallon of milk and heating our McMansions won't be so convenient or economical anymore. Sadly, the delimma is coming and we as a society, especially here in Columbus, are not preparing ourselves for it as much as we should. Most of us are in denial about it and our local, state and federal gov't leaders are not helping the situation either. We are addicted to oil and overconsumption and I fear it will only take something drastic to finally wake us up and change our ways. I say "us" because I rely too much on my car and sometimes overconsume. It's just too easy. However, I do my best to be sustainable by living in an urban environment, walking, biking, riding public transit, recycling. Unfortunately, large portion of the population is not in the position to be able to live like that, even if the wish to.

We have to do much better in every aspect with our built environment. We simply cannont afford to keep sprawling.

Posted 7 months ago #
bman
New Albany
Login to Send PM

jpizzow said:
Any type of rail based transit will not be viable in this city until the innermost neighborhoods become dense enough to support it, as well as the development of dense nodes in the outer suburbs (which could spring up BECAUSE of the transit). The overall mindset needs to change as well. We are slowly creeping to that point with the younger generations leading the way. Yes, it is too easy to get anywhere in Columbus with a car, but what will happen when gas hits $4/gallon and beyond. Our development patterns and reliance on personal vehicles are inefficient in so many ways already. It's going to bite us in the arse a decade or two from now. Using a gallon of gas to get a gallon of milk and heating our McMansions won't be so convenient or economical anymore. Sadly, the delimma is coming and we as a society, especially here in Columbus, are not preparing ourselves for it as much as we should. Most of us are in denial about it and our local, state and federal gov't leaders are not helping the situation either. We are addicted to oil and overconsumption and I fear it will only take something drastic to finally wake us up and change our ways. I say "us" because I rely too much on my car and sometimes overconsume. It's just too easy. However, I do my best to be sustainable by living in an urban environment, walking, biking, riding public transit, recycling. Unfortunately, large portion of the population is not in the position to be able to live like that, even if the wish to.

We have to do much better in every aspect with our built environment. We simply cannont afford to keep sprawling.

I bet my McMansion is smaller and much more energy efficient than just about any historic city center home.

Posted 7 months ago #
jpizzow
580 N. Park St.
Login to Send PM

^^Well, those historic homes existed before the mass production of McMansions and before anybody even gave two thoughts about an energy crisis....doesn't make it right to keep on building 3000 sq. foot homes with 3 car garages.

Posted 7 months ago #
bman
New Albany
Login to Send PM

jpizzow said:
^^Well, those historic homes existed before the mass production of McMansions and before anybody even gave two thoughts about an energy crisis....doesn't make it right to keep on building 3000 sq. foot homes with 3 car garages.

You brought up heating our McMansions and my point only was that it is energy efficient to live in a new suburban home versus an older historic home if you are basing where you live on energy consumption. I work in Lewis Center and live in New Albany why would I want to live in crime ridden WP and commute out of town for work when my McMansion is cheaper for me.

Posted 7 months ago #