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Even downtown D.C. (NW) is sleepy at night, so that's not always a death knell for a city.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Travel
Some Thoughts on Downtown Dayton
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GCrites80s
5xNW
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Posted 6 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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GCrites80s said:
Even downtown D.C. (NW) is sleepy at night, so that's not always a death knell for a city.It's true that by their very nature, "Central Business Districts" are at their most vibrant from Mon-Fri 8am to 5pm. The Financial District in NYC empties out quite a bit at night and on weekends as well.
The fact that so many buildings were boarded and/or empty was more of the problem that we saw.
Posted 6 months ago # -
mrsgeedeck
Castle of Lions
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My In Laws live in Dayton, and honestly, every time we're there it seems more and more desolate. When I first started dating @geedeck, there was an active strip mall about five minutes from his mom, now even that is gone, and each time we go back he points out something else that has closed down.
We've been through downtown a few times for weddings and such (and I think we've even eaten at that Soup place) and have had a similar experience. Aside from an Occupy Dayton tent, we were the only ones driving through on a Saturday afternoon.I think in some cases, urban sprawl has been Dayton's biggest enemy. While most of @geedeck's family technically live in Dayton, it's always a 40+ minute freeway drive to visit his aunt from his mom's, or to get from his dad's to his mom's etc,. It hard for a thriving city to sustain that many suburbs, let alone one in need of a major economic driver.
Posted 6 months ago # -
FSonicSmith
Columbus-downtown for work, East for the residence
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I was born and raised in Dayton. Lived in upper Daytonview as a kid, near Siebenthaler and Salem Ave. Spent many a Sunday at the downtown library and roaming the nearby Army Surplus store. Even back then, in the days of NCR and Mead, downtown Dayton was pretty dead.
So today, downtown is still dead (and Walker, I would love to hear how much the hotel room cost and what the hotel room was like) and the places to go and eat are generally South near Oakwood and Centerville.
The Pine Club is near downtown; http://thepineclub.com/thepineclubmenu.aspx
The Oakwood location of Dorothy Lane Market beats the crap out of Hills; http://www.dorothylane.com/stores/locations.pl
And then there is Rue Domaine for good French bistro; http://ruedumainerestaurant.com/Posted 6 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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FSonicSmith said:
So today, downtown is still dead (and Walker, I would love to hear how much the hotel room cost and what the hotel room was like).The hotel was kind of nice. Historic building, nice enough common areas (the lobby had a weird overpowering scented candle smell) and a heated 7th floor pool, hot tub and gym with a view.
(Photos from the hotel's website)
The individual room decor was a little dated, and I thought it was weird that there was a mini-fridge just sitting in the corner rather than underneath a countertop as you'd usually see. The heaters didn't work very well and it stayed a little chilly over night even with them cranked all the way up.
For being a larger hotel it kind of felt like there were only around 30 people staying there as we saw very few people in hallways or the lobby.
http://www.daytongrandhotel.com
We got a "King Bed Suite" that had a living room with pullout sofa bed. It looks like the online going rate for a Friday night stay is $129 (pre tax & fees). Garage parking was free, though no valet. Anne found a Groupon a few months ago for $77, which was what motivated us to go in the first place:
http://www.groupon.com/deals/ga-dayton-grand-hotel
Seemed like a cheap enough excuse to get out of town for a day without a long drive.
Posted 6 months ago # -
ColDayMan
Cincinnati-Dayton
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I thought it was a fair write up. I'm from the city of Dayton (thus, ColumbusDaytonMan) and currently live in the metro (lived in Columbus for almost ten years). Downtown Dayton without question hit rock-bottom in the early 2000's after the Arcade, various restaurants, hotels, and headquarters (Mead, Reynolds & Reynolds, Citizen Federal, etc) left. Dayton is the state's fourth largest metropolitan area yet perhaps one of the most decentralized due to the severe flight of the city (Toledo and Youngstown are comparable, in a way). Downtown, in essence, became an empty shell but around the late 2000's started to slowly come back. New residential along Patterson, more condos in the Webster Station district (east of downtown; a smaller version of the Brewery District), and new-ish restaurants (Olive, De'lish, some Indian-Mex place).
Downtown Dayton is certainly very safe, even at Third & Main (what suburbanites would equate with 'notorious' or 'crime-ridden' due to black folks getting off the bus). The neighborhoods surrounding downtown are generally stable (Oregon St. Anne's Hill [architecturally, a better Franklinton], South Park [Merion Village-esque but a tad older], McPhersonTown, and Grafton Hill). The Oregon District reminds me more of Parsons than it does the Short North with a more blue-collar ecclectic mix than a Level or a Hubbard Grill.
Overall, Walker saw a city with issues but potential (particularly the 'mothballed buildings'). I'm a booster for both Dayton and Columbus so bah.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Urban Dansigner
Downtown
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mrsgeedeck said:
I think in some cases, urban sprawl has been Dayton's biggest enemy. While most of @geedeck's family technically live in Dayton, it's always a 40+ minute freeway drive to visit his aunt from his mom's, or to get from his dad's to his mom's etc,. It hard for a thriving city to sustain that many suburbs, let alone one in need of a major economic driver.Absolute agreement on this argument. Metro Dayton's population has not grown in 30-40 years but it continues the ever expansion outward! Go out to Beavercreek/Wright State area and you can see the strange cancerous growth that should be city like, but is not, while the downtown is mothballed.
Having grown up in the Dayton Metro (Kettering to be exact) I found the people to be completely fearful of anything that could not fit into a narrow range of acceptable. It is great to be in a city like Columbus that is smart and open. My take of Dayton may be that of the adolescent that left Dayton, but sometimes perception is reality.
Like Walker I think it is great that much of the downtown Dayton is still intact and that it has great potential, but with most of the big employers (Mead, NCR, Elder Beerman, Rikes) gone I do not know how you pull it off. Sometimes I have the same thoughts for Columbus - I hate going to the outer belt and seeing Fortune 500 companies lining the freeways instead of having gleaming towers in the core.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Urban Dansigner
Downtown
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I would like to add that I spent a LOT of time downtown in my teens and never once had a problem with "the bad element". Maybe I was one of them ... I wore an old Army jacket and boot cut jeans - think Quadrophenia.
Yes, Dayton was and still is very polarized by race.
Posted 6 months ago # -
NEOBuckeye
Ohio At-Large
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Urban Dansigner said:
Absolute agreement on this argument. Metro Dayton's population has not grown in 30-40 years but it continues the ever expansion outward! Go out to Beavercreek/Wright State area and you can see the strange cancerous growth that should be city like, but is not, while the downtown is mothballed.Having grown up in the Dayton Metro (Kettering to be exact) I found the people to be completely fearful of anything that could not fit into a narrow range of acceptable. It is great to be in a city like Columbus that is smart and open. My take of Dayton may be that of the adolescent that left Dayton, but sometimes perception is reality.
Like Walker I think it is great that much of the downtown Dayton is still intact and that it has great potential, but with most of the big employers (Mead, NCR, Elder Beerman, Rikes) gone I do not know how you pull it off. Sometimes I have the same thoughts for Columbus - I hate going to the outer belt and seeing Fortune 500 companies lining the freeways instead of having gleaming towers in the core.
Well, at least Columbus still HAS Fortune 500 companies. Having just fairly recently lost NCR, Dayton has zero. I'm not knocking Dayton here, nor am I endorsing sprawl, but just stating a fact. Columbus has a very limited concept of what Dayton and other rust belt-type cities in this part of the country have experienced over the past few decades. What Columbus did lose in heavy manufacturing, these losses were more than offset by the boom in white collar service, insurance, tech, and retail jobs and businesses that have driven the city's growth in conjunction with aggressive annexation. Meanwhile, cities like Dayton, Toledo, Canton, and Youngstown are still waiting on the start of their second acts. As you point out, there is no readily apparent way forward for them, because each of these cities grew up around one or more industries that are now gone in all but vestiges of their former glory.
Or put another way, for Columbus to truly grasp what Dayton and other rust belt cities experienced during and throughout the ongoing wake of industrial collapse, it would have to lose Nationwide, Chase, Farmers, Limited Brands, Huntington, the Statehouse/state government seat, AND OSU all within a span of about 10 years or less. The socioeconomic devastation here would be catastrophic, as would be the damage to the unique social and cultural fabric that has emerged and really come into its own over the course of the past 15-20 years. This is what happened to Dayton, Toledo, Youngstown, etc. Cities like Dayton had problems long before they lost their key industries, of course, but if those problems were like chronic disabilities at worst, the loss of industry was like a massive stroke or a heart attack.
Posted 6 months ago # -
lazyfish
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ToddAnders said:
Good; As you saw, Dayton needs a good 20-25 years of good leadership. Not to shit on them, but you can spend just a few hours there and get it all.Highlights from me:
Dorthy Lane Market
The Pine Club
NCR Country and Golf Club
Cox Arboretumis Milano's still around, used to be the best pizza and subs in town. My folks bought a place in the Oregon District in 74, were going to be urban homsteaders, Mom went and visited the schools one day, long story short, sold the rehab project and moved to the burbs of Dayton. Always thought it weird that Dayton and Austin had a comparable population in the 70's not so much now.
Posted 6 months ago # -
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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It's not Dayton proper, but Yellow Springs is only 10 minutes outside of Dayton --one of the most charming hippie havens you could ever imagine. Enter its magical confines to be instantly transported back to a place where the 1960's live eternally.
Posted 6 months ago # -
ToddAnders
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Yes, Milano's is still there; Really good subs.
Yellow Springs has to be the saving grace of living in Dayton; the bike paths are incredible and restaurants are as well. Great place to use a vacation day at work and throw the bikes in the trunk and go.
Posted 6 months ago # -
moxie
Franklin Park
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I grew up in a suburb of Dayton and didn't discover my "love for all things urban" until moving to Columbus so I'm still exploring downtown Dayton when I go back to visit family. A little neighborhoods called St. Anne's Hill has some great energy and is within walking distance to the Oregon District. I couldnt make it this year but I was happy to hear about the Downtown Revival Concert! It looks like they are trying to put Dayton on the map for music. Gotta start somewhere :)
http://www.downtownrevival.com/
http://www.stanneshill.org/main.shtmlPosted 6 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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ColDayMan said:
The Oregon District reminds me more of Parsons than it does the Short North with a more blue-collar ecclectic mix than a Level or a Hubbard Grill.Are you talking OTE Parsons or South Side Parsons? If the former, I agree. The South Side of Parsons is too much of a dangerous speed trap to compare to the nice little brick street of East Fifth in the Oregon District. ;)
Posted 6 months ago # -
geedeck
Witalian Willage
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As Mrsgeedeck said, I grew up in Dayton, went to HS in downtown at Chaminade-Julienne, so pretty familiar with the area. As she and others pointed out, the urban sprawl is one of the main factors that murders culture, but the other is, is that anyone who has/d drive to Do Something either moves to CLE/CMH/CIN or just out of the state. Dayton doesn't attract you because it's amazing, Dayton attracts you because your lack of inertia can't overcome it's gravity. It is a hellmouth of mediocrity, to use Buffy parlance. When you have smaller places like this, you don't find amazing leaders for the place because it's a great job, you get them because they love the community. I never saw a single one of those in my time there, though those are 14 year old views of someone who was 18 or younger. That said, I still have to go there for family and like I say to mrsgeedeck every time we go "Oh that used to be a..." is a constant phrase. Outsourcing, just to other parts of the US, also helped to cripple the place as NCR, Mead and even the fucking Dayton Daily News got out of the city (the latter moved out by Springboro, the low-rent version of New Albany).
It's not all terrible. If I was creating a data center or other IT stuff that didn't need a proper big city, it'd be an amazing place to set it up. And if they somehow with the blessings of space-elmo-jesus got a train, it'd be fabulous commute for Cincy/Columbus.
I do applaud folks like Walker for giving it a shot. They need like a hundred thou more of him.
Posted 6 months ago # -
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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tree_sketcher said:
I'm consistently amazed that Dayton has not been able to take advantage of its superior location and its unique history. Downtown has a lot of good bones and could be really special. Think of other smaller cities that build draw from larger neighboring metro regions but still have their own identity. Boulder, Raleigh, Albany, and Greenville come to mind.Location (I-70 & I-75) would definitely seem to be a competitive advantage, at least for trucking and warehousing facilities in the suburbs.
Posted 6 months ago #
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