Daz
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Normally I don't get into Michael Moore movies. His tactics and bias and what not have always kind of pissed me off... but...
Sicko is one of the most powerful films I've seen in awhile. I'll recommend it to everybody. I'm a long time advocate of free health care, and this just delivered the nail in the coffin.
thatsmydog
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I thought it came out the 29th?
Having seen other moore movies, I will not venture into this one. He has a message he wants to send and will film things to support his message, not very enlightening.
Who doesn't believe labor was equally at fault for GM's problems? Look at all the concessions they were forced to give the last 5 years.
Finally, there are no free lunches!
Daz
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I've got a copy ;)
And that's true, everything always must be taken with a grain of salt, but I hope this movie helps raise the awareness to a more common level of the complete ridiculousness that is our health system.
I mean.. EVERY OTHER WESTERN COUNTRY has free health care. Why can't we pull our heads out of our asses and do the same? I just hope... that this message gets across.
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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Daz wrote I've got a copy ;)And that's true, everything always must be taken with a grain of salt, but I hope this movie helps raise the awareness to a more common level of the complete ridiculousness that is our health system.
I mean.. EVERY OTHER WESTERN COUNTRY has free health care. Why can't we pull our heads out of our asses and do the same? I just hope... that this message gets across.
If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you as well? Just like our mothers always taught us, that is not a valid reason to do something.
And, as the other poster said, there is no such thing as free. What you really mean is "a system where I don't have to pay anything." Considering you have no issue with seeing a movie for free, I am not suprised you want your healthcare for free as well.
A.
Daz
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Andrew Hall wroteDaz wrote I've got a copy ;)And that's true, everything always must be taken with a grain of salt, but I hope this movie helps raise the awareness to a more common level of the complete ridiculousness that is our health system.
I mean.. EVERY OTHER WESTERN COUNTRY has free health care. Why can't we pull our heads out of our asses and do the same? I just hope... that this message gets across.
If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you as well? Just like our mothers always taught us, that is not a valid reason to do something.
And, as the other poster said, there is no such thing as free. What you really mean is "a system where I don't have to pay anything." Considering you have no issue with seeing a movie for free, I am not suprised you want your healthcare for free as well.
A.
Oooo.. taking a stab at my morality in order to prove a point. Didn't they teach you about logical fallacies when you were in school? That means what you just said has no actual bearing on the discussion at hand. Learn to argue.
Oh, and to defend myself:
Michael Moore publicly stated that he is perfectly fine with this moving being pirated http://www.filmjunk.com/2007/06/21/michael-moore-is-okay-with-piracy-sicko-release-date-bumped-up/
I'm not largely into piracy, as I am the type of person who actually OWNS some 700+ records and 400 DVDs. I loathe the people that typically profit from these things (it's NEVER the artist), but... that's beside the point.
That's for the first part.
For the second, this isn't about getting something for "free," we pay taxes to cover many "socialized" things in our society. Those all seem to work out really well for us. I mean, hell, I enjoy being able to know that I can dial 911 and my tax dollars go to somebody who can help in the case of an emergency. I like driving on paved roads. I also enjoy knowing that when I have kids, they'll have education taken care of by the state.
Debt from schooling and medical bills is a JOKE in other cultures, as well as it should be here. Not to mention, France, UK, Canada, Germany... they ALL have longer life expectancies than we do in America http://www.os-connect.com/pop/p1.asp?whichpage=11&pagesize=20&sort=Country
I'm a great fan of capitalism. I love the way it works and the way it drives our markets, but I believe there is a time and a place for it. When it comes to the health of people in our society, I think they have a right to be taken care of. Maybe this just hits a little close to home for me, as I've gone through the bullshit before.
I once had a few moles on my face that were rapidly growing, changing color, and changing shape. Any doctor can tell you that this is a sign that these need to get removed, as they have a GREAT shot of turning into skin cancer (and since it runs in my family, there's ever more of a shot). My insurance company wouldn't cover the $2000 procedure because it was "not necessary". So I got to make the choice, and I chose debt. There are a lot of people out there who have it a LOT worse (internal organs, etc.).
P.S. When they ran the tests on the moles when they came off, it turns out if I wouldn't have had them removed, the cancer would've spread fast. Very fast.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Daz wrote We pay taxes to cover many "socialized" things in our society. Those all seem to work out really well for us.
I'd say some work out really well. Others not so much. Social Security is one. I'd say the welfare system is pretty broken too. I see Unemployment aid getting abused all the time. Just to name a few off the top of my head.
I'm all about helping the poor and the underprivilaged, but there are always people who are going to abuse these systems.
Daz
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Walker wroteDaz wrote We pay taxes to cover many "socialized" things in our society. Those all seem to work out really well for us.I'd say some work out really well. Others not so much. Social Security is one. I'd say the welfare system is pretty broken too. I see Unemployment aid getting abused all the time. Just to name a few off the top of my head.
I'm all about helping the poor and the underprivilaged, but there are always people who are going to abuse these systems.
You're very right on those. There are, however, also several cases where those things work as the safety nets that they're supposed to. I just don't see where the abuse can be factored in on something like health care. Yeah, you can fake sick.. but... what's that going to accomplish for you? It's not like welfare or unemployment where you get money for it.
columbus_local
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I just watched this movie, and i have to say, what an eye opener. How disgusting our health care system is, and the way we treat those who can't afford it is UNBELIEVABLE!! The fact that Cuba even has universal health care, and to see all those people at the end with Michael get the care they needed, put me in tears. I know it's a 1 sided view, but he was very to the point, and kept the political neutrality in it. This is going to be a hugely debated movie over the next month i'm sure, and I hope it opens enough people's eyes to it.
And, yea.. It's on UseNeXT, you can download it there.. Love that program :)
columbus_local
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and the fact that in France they get a minimum of 5 weeks off paid vacation a year?? And unlimited sick days? My company only allowed for 4 sick days a year. I like what all the french-american women said, how can a company decide how sick you can be? If you're sick, you're sick. mmm I'll leave it alone now, but i agree, this was a VERY powerful movie.
Daz
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columbus_local wrote and the fact that in France they get a minimum of 5 weeks off paid vacation a year?? And unlimited sick days? My company only allowed for 4 sick days a year. I like what all the french-american women said, how can a company decide how sick you can be? If you're sick, you're sick. mmm I'll leave it alone now, but i agree, this was a VERY powerful movie.
Yeaaa... France is a little bit extreme for me in their worker policies, but it is definitely eye opening to see that they can run things that way.
Roland
Clintonville
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I watched the movie.
I gotta say that it really does make me want to see change in our country with regards to health care. The background given on the Kaiser Permenente organization with the recordings of Nixon's committee meeting are outrageously disturbing. Everything about the movie is disturbing.
Whatever you think of Michael Moore, the movie is worth everyone's time to watch. To at least just think about the issue. I had a particular frame of mind about universal health care, this gave me a different perspective.
This is much more then just an issue of providing for America's poor.
brothermarcus
West Siiiide
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^ agree, the focus of the film was on the middle class... i found myself openly crying a few times in the film, and i don't cry. great documentary, moore's presence was largely unnecessary.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." - G.K. Chesterton
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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Some really interesting counter points here:
Ltrgman
Columbus
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I really liked SiCKO and think anyone living in the U.S. should go see it... unless of course you don't get sick or have VIP health care. Say what you want about Michael Moore, but one thing you have to agree upon is he makes documentaries that stir up debates. Whether biased or not, at least he's not afraid to speak up.
I think some Americans can be too prideful and are way too sensitive to anything that is even a hint at being against America or American ways. Thus they're not open minded and think nothing exists outside of the U.S. Saying one thing sucks in the U.S., like the health care system, doesn't mean EVERYTHING sucks here or this country is shit. It's like saying people that are against the war don't care about the troops?! Shit like that is just ass backwards and ignorant.
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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I definitely think he is bringing attention to an important issue, I also think he glossed over a HELLUVA lot of problems in the "wonderful national systems" that he covered.
Jonzun
Columbus, D.C., Atlanta, Raleigh, Atlanta
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I saw the movie. I found it very hard to contain my anger. The system, as it exist, is not fair. Also, putting the lives in the hands of the insurance companies, whose only concern is profit, is wrong ... especially when they countermand doctors. For this reason alone, I'm for a social heathcare system.
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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Well, again...before you go all "socialized medicine rocks!" go watch this.
http://onthefencefilms.com/video/deadmeat/
I don't think entirely social medicine is even close to a solution myself. It's just not realistic or effective. Moore did a number on a LOT of facts in this "documentary", and although it works and it makes his point and brings a discussion to the table, it's far from a factual account of...well...anything.
Jonzun
Columbus, D.C., Atlanta, Raleigh, Atlanta
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Coremodels wrote Well, again...before you go all "socialized medicine rocks!" go watch this.http://onthefencefilms.com/video/deadmeat/
I don't think entirely social medicine is even close to a solution myself. It's just not realistic or effective. Moore did a number on a LOT of facts in this "documentary", and although it works and it makes his point and brings a discussion to the table, it's far from a factual account of...well...anything.
These guys sound like right-wing hacks! they are anything but "ON THE FENCE!"
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