Senator Kennedy passes after fight with cancer « Columbus Underground Messageboard

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Senator Kennedy passes after fight with cancer

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Started 2 years ago by lifeontwowheels
Latest reply from howatzer

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rus

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greenhouse1014 wrote >>

rus wrote >>

greenhouse1014 wrote >>

hugh59 wrote >>
Five years ago, Senator Kennedy was influential in having Massachusetts law changed so that US Senate vacancies would be filled by special election rather than be appointed by the governor. This was done to keep Republican governor Mitt Romney from appointing a Republican as successor if John Kerry had become president.
Times change. There is a Democrat governor in Massachusetts. A week before his death, Kennedy started pushing to have the law changed back so that the governor can appoint a successor.
Patrick backs push to appoint successor
I think they need to go further. They should amend Massachusetts law so that ONLY a Democrat who is a member of the Kennedy family can fill that seat.

Maybe if you spend a little time actually reading, you would realize that he was pushing for a TEMPORARY replacement to be appointed until the special election could be held. In this time, when so many things are on the line in our government, it would do the people of Massachusetts well to have full representation in the Senate without a void.

... so long as that representation is a Democrat

Hmmm, I guess you must be seeing words that I don't. Didn't see that appear anywhere. Paranoid much?

Lets not be disingenuous. The law was changed to prevent a republican from appointing a republican senator in the event Kerry won his presidential bid. Now that a democrat is governor suddenly appointments are ok.

Switch the parties in that statement and there would be outrage and rightly so.

Posted 2 years ago #
JimL2

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rus wrote >>
All errors are provided for your amusement ;)

It's not every day that someone goes out of their way to describe themselves as a monkey on a string, pretending to wear human clothes and have political opinions for the amusement of the viewer.

Little chimpanzee-sized political opinions about how the Spanish-American war was a hoax and the WWII memorial should be made of sticks and butter.

Chimpanzee-style keyboard fumblings, stream-of-thought strawmen poorly erected with an odd number of arms. A simian attempt to rip off the wit of Ambrose Bierce.

You are truly the Peter Wrongway Peachfuzz of making political jokes on the internet. A brave inept voice for a new generation. But I can't decide if your being aware of your own sad existence--your most interesting parts are minor errors, shimmering off the vast, deep pool of your ignorance--makes you tragic or not.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that it's hard to laugh at a clown when he's throwing himself off a second-story balcony over and over again. Blood and tears running down his determined, haggard face.

So thanks for trying, but you're scaring the kids.

Posted 2 years ago #
jimbach
Short North (WP division)
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berdawn wrote >>

jimbach wrote >>
Ted Kennedy was the greatest senator of the 20th century, possibly of all time. He will be terribly missed.

better than LBJ???

Comparatively speaking, LBJ wasn't that great a senator. He wasn't in the Senate that long and wasn't as effective as Kennedy in getting legislation through. His major success was the '57 Civil Rights Act. What LBJ was great at was using his Senate knowledge as president.

EMK's ability to compromise, to work with members of both parties, and to shepherd legislation through the labyrinthine system of the Senate was probably unparalleled in its history. In terms of representing his constituents, his party, his ideology, and in his ability to get legislation passed, there's nobody who can touch him.

Posted 2 years ago #
rus

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JimL2 wrote >>

Little chimpanzee-sized political opinions about how the Spanish-American war was a hoax and the WWII memorial should be made of sticks and butter.

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize your breakfast is scotch.

Posted 2 years ago #
Cookie
Flyntonville
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rus wrote >>
Oh, sorry. I didn't realize your breakfast is scotch.

I think his breakfast was you. You should quit while you're behind.

Posted 2 years ago #
HeySquare
German Village
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Seriously. I don't know what brought Jim out of the bat cave... but... that. was. awesome.

throwing Ambrose Bierce is trump. What can you really say after that?

Posted 2 years ago #
Hael

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Cookie wrote >>

Hael wrote >>
Not suggesting this happens here, but in other wretched places on the intertubes, when a republican dies, it is usually a parade of "ding dong the witch is dead". Just sayin.

What does that have to do with how people are behaving here?

My point was that the comments here are pretty mild compared to what I have witnessed. It doesn't excuse them and I would not make those disrespectful comments. There is a lot of hate out there, for example, the internet toddler JimL2.

Posted 2 years ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Walker wrote >>
Please keep this conversation civil.
Thanks,
Walker

Posted 2 years ago #
hugh59
Aboard the ultimate power in Olde Towne East
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Such a lovely schoolyard here...all the insults going back and forth.

My problem with Senator Kennedy was that there was an inconsistency between the rules that he wanted us to live by and the rules that he wanted to live by.

The Kennedy family is very wealthy; so wealthy that they can live lives of great luxury and comfort without doing any real work. They have staff to handle everything. This lifestyle is paid for with minimal taxable income; their financial planners just sell off a balance of appreciated stock and depreciated stock so that they end up with $0 net income. The wealth is structured so that it can pass from generation to generation with minimal liability for estate and gift taxes.

The Kennedys pay very low taxes in relation to their wealth, yet Senator Kennedy supported very expensive programs. He got to be the "liberal lion" of the senate by spending other people's money. He pretended to be a leader, but he was asking us to make sacrifices that he would only pretend to make.

So either he really believed in these positions (in which case he demonstrated inconsistent norms) or he was a cynic who did not really believe in anything and promoted these positions just so he could get elected (which would also make him a hypocrite for promoting positions that he really did not believe in). I think that he genuinely believed in many of his stated positions, but not all. A little cynicism made for good politics.

As for the move to change Massachusetts law, this is an example of the worst kind of power politics.
We don't know exactly what the new law will be. It may allow for the governor to appoint a Senator to serve for the 140 to 160 days until the special election; it may also change the length of time for holding the special election. It could schedule the special election so as to take place at the time of the next general election. So we do not know just how "temporary" the appointed senator may be.

Posted 2 years ago #
JimL2

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hugh59 wrote >>
He got to be the "liberal lion" of the senate by spending other people's money.

Yes how dare Senators use taxpayer money to pay for Federal programs rather than their own, personal funds.

Wait, what?

Posted 2 years ago #
groundrules

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rus wrote >>
Lets not be disingenuous. The law was changed to prevent a republican from appointing a republican senator in the event Kerry won his presidential bid. Now that a democrat is governor suddenly appointments are ok.
Switch the parties in that statement and there would be outrage and rightly so.

Let's not be discombobulated. Again: Previous law addresses permanent appointment. Kennedy's request deals with a temporary appointment, including a special provision that the temporary appointee not run in the ensuing special election.

continue with your misplaced rage.

Posted 2 years ago #
hugh59
Aboard the ultimate power in Olde Towne East
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Funny. Misstate my argument so you can make an easy put down and ignore it.

My argument actually is, in part, how dare Senators use taxpayer dollars to pay for programs when they are not making a commensurate sacrifice.

Senator Kennedy's list of legislative accomplishments is impressive and he was one of the most influential members to ever serve in that body. However, the effectiveness of this legislation is debatable.

Perhaps his legislation would have been better drafted and more effective if he and his family had been enduring a tax burden equal to the one he voted on for us. It is easy for people who are not paying their full share to push for expensive changes. If you treat passing a law as if you have solved the problem, so much the better. You get to be a "hero" even if the laws you passed had minimal effect.

Posted 2 years ago #
JimL2

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Honestly Hugh, I'm having trouble figuring out what your argument is. I've read those last two posts like five times now. What "sacrifice" do you feel Kennedy should have made, that he didn't?

Or do you just think that rich people don't pay enough taxes, and that this is somehow Ted Kennedy's fault?

Seriously, help me out here.

Posted 2 years ago #
hugh59
Aboard the ultimate power in Olde Towne East
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So Kennedy requested that the governor be allowed to make a temporary appointment of a person to serve until the special election could be held. And, this placeholder should not run in the special election to fill the seat.

First, there is no way to stop the appointed person from running in the special election (other than the practical way of appointing a person with no money, no campaign staff, and no political support to the seat).

However, if Senator Kennedy felt that a vacancy was such a bad thing he should have resigned his seat last year. Kennedy rarely attended sessions in the Senate after is disease was diagnosed. For all practical purposes, the seat has been vacant since last year. If he had retired in 2008, the special election could have taken place at the same time as the general election.

Kennedy was unwilling to let go of power even though it deprived the state of two fully active senators. His stated concern for the citizens of Massachusetts is not believable.

Posted 2 years ago #
JimL2

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What does that have to do with how much taxes he pays, and the "sacrifice" you keep talking about, and the efficacy of the legislation he passed during his career, and anything else you've said so far? Does this all tie together somehow?

Posted 2 years ago #
hugh59
Aboard the ultimate power in Olde Towne East
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Yes, it ties all together.

I believe that the very wealthy are not taxed enough in this country. Paying taxes constitues a "sacrifice" that we all make in order for effective government and good government services. The very wealthy have influence in congress (and are often members of congress themselves) and engineer out tax laws so that the very wealthy can pay less taxes.

I am at work and I can only spend a limited amount of time here. I will try to give more of an explanation later.

But, I am a tax lawyer working in tax enforcement for the government. I am very unhappy with the general ineffectiveness of our government's attempts to solve our nation's problems.

Posted 2 years ago #
greenhouse1014
Columbus
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JimL2 wrote >>

rus wrote >>
All errors are provided for your amusement ;)

It's not every day that someone goes out of their way to describe themselves as a monkey on a string, pretending to wear human clothes and have political opinions for the amusement of the viewer.
Little chimpanzee-sized political opinions about how the Spanish-American war was a hoax and the WWII memorial should be made of sticks and butter.
Chimpanzee-style keyboard fumblings, stream-of-thought strawmen poorly erected with an odd number of arms. A simian attempt to rip off the wit of Ambrose Bierce.
You are truly the Peter Wrongway Peachfuzz of making political jokes on the internet. A brave inept voice for a new generation. But I can't decide if your being aware of your own sad existence--your most interesting parts are minor errors, shimmering off the vast, deep pool of your ignorance--makes you tragic or not.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that it's hard to laugh at a clown when he's throwing himself off a second-story balcony over and over again. Blood and tears running down his determined, haggard face.
So thanks for trying, but you're scaring the kids.

Jim, You're my new internet hero.

Posted 2 years ago #
greenhouse1014
Columbus
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hugh59 wrote >>
Yes, it ties all together.
I believe that the very wealthy are not taxed enough in this country. Paying taxes constitues a "sacrifice" that we all make in order for effective government and good government services. The very wealthy have influence in congress (and are often members of congress themselves) and engineer out tax laws so that the very wealthy can pay less taxes.
I am at work and I can only spend a limited amount of time here. I will try to give more of an explanation later.
But, I am a tax lawyer working in tax enforcement for the government. I am very unhappy with the general ineffectiveness of our government's attempts to solve our nation's problems.

What does this, really, have to do with Kennedy. Are you singling him out? I mean, legislators DO pay taxes, right. air enough, he, along with everyone else with money, probably has found loopholes, etc., that limit his tax payment, but that's more a symptom of the system rather than a reason to single out one individual for derision. Hell, if I had money like that, I'[d probably try to find ways to reduce my tax burden as well. What's wrong with not wanting to pay more than you have to?

I'm also disappointed in our tax enforcement workers being ineffective in their fight to enforce existing tax laws...

Posted 2 years ago #
osulew
My house...in the middle of my street
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I love when Jim comes out of hiding.

Posted 2 years ago #
groundrules

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hugh59 wrote >>
I believe that the very wealthy are not taxed enough in this country. Paying taxes constitues a "sacrifice" that we all make in order for effective government and good government services. The very wealthy have influence in congress (and are often members of congress themselves) and engineer out tax laws so that the very wealthy can pay less taxes.

It might help to ease your angst if you spent a minute researching how much of his personal money (admittedly of which there was plenty) Ted Kennedy gave to social services that did much to augment the 'effective government' and 'good government services' of concern.

EDIT: tax lawyer says 'he donated just to reduce is IRS exposure'.

Posted 2 years ago #