Rubber tire trolley - bridge the gap before light rail « Columbus Underground Messageboard

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Rubber tire trolley - bridge the gap before light rail

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Started 4 months ago by InnerCore
Latest reply from jbCBUS

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lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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geoyui said:
I think the key IMO is that this trolley, along with serving the locals, will be greater utilized by tourists/convention goers. It's so easy to just ask the concierge "where can i go for a quick bite/drink/etc" and it's great to hear them say "take the X trolley, runs up and down high street for free until midnight". It's better then taking a guide/paper map around that a hotel may offer, and it's great to know there is a reliable, simple, free service the city provides when you are unfamiliar with the city.

And I agree that google maps serves everything, but I can imagine many out-of-towners not having researched out where to go, too tired/unable to walk around and explore, or not tech savy with a smartphone/gps, like this lady.

How is "take x trolley" any different than "take the #2/21 to 3rd ave. it picks up in 5 minutes across the street"?

I get that this could and would just as easily serve locals but much of the conversation seems to focus on serving tourists. Ultimately it's sustained ridership across the city that's going to drive the development of multifaceted transit in Central Ohio.

Who runs, maintains and finances this? Sure there are opportunities for public-private but I'd bet good money that it falls back on COTA as they already have the resources and infrastructure in place. Frankly I'd rather see the related cost ls applied to needed service across the entire service area: expansion of late night service, improved bus stops, better rider communication-things that serve the community and would have a far greater impact on ridership.

Posted 4 months ago #
cbus11

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Special service lines such as what InnerCore is proposing have been successfully implemented in other cities. I think they help overcome the perceived stigma of public transit and gain ridership in a large demographic that does not take the bus while promoting economic activity. As someone posted 97% do not use public transit in Franklin County. It also presents an opportunity to reach out to the growing tourist and convention trade which Columbus has recently invested in with the construction of the Hilton Convention Center Hotel and the Pizutti Short North Hotel.

It seems like an opportunity to try something a little different in an area that is now very suited toward it. It would be very hard to beat the alignment and proximity of downtown to the SN and the opportunity it provides as Central Ohio attractions. I don't see this as a high risk undertaking and I think that the possible overall gains would be well worth the risk.

Posted 4 months ago #
geoyui
West Side
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lifeontwowheels said:
How is "take x trolley" any different than "take the #2/21 to 3rd ave. it picks up in 5 minutes across the street"?

I get that this could and would just as easily serve locals but much of the conversation seems to focus on serving tourists. Ultimately it's sustained ridership across the city that's going to drive the development of multifaceted transit in Central Ohio.

Who runs, maintains and finances this? Sure there are opportunities for public-private but I'd bet good money that it falls back on COTA as they already have the resources and infrastructure in place. Frankly I'd rather see the related cost ls applied to needed service across the entire service area: expansion of late night service, improved bus stops, better rider communication-things that serve the community and would have a far greater impact on ridership.

Some people are just not keen to following directions. My fiance will get lost, call me for directions, and get frustrated, and she's lived here for over 6 years.

Couldn't this line help with improving ridership and increasing awareness on the convenience and ease of mass transit? Having this route could introduce to non traditional riders that you don't have to drive everyday.

I realize everything costs money, but is it too much to try and support the tourism industry, and one of the city's most business heavy neighborhoods, with 1 free bus line?

Posted 4 months ago #
InnerCore

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Walker said:
No offense at all meant to Mr. Stitt, as he's a good guy, but as rapidly as leadership seems to change in most public or quasi-public offices, I doubt he'll still be CEO of COTA in 2024. The next CEO may have a completely different vision. And it's no secret that our Mayor wants a streetcar, and he was plenty loud enough about pushing that idea in the past regardless of what the previous CEO of COTA had to say on the topic. If Coleman were to dust off the plans anytime soon, there's no reason it would take a decade to execute.

Whether he's here or not in 2024 is besides the point. He's running COTA now and it's pretty clear there aren't plans coming anytime soon. Let's say he's gone in 5 years and the new guy (or gal) thinks it's going to happen sooner. Were still talking about many YEARS.

The reality is that none of us know when rail is coming. But we know for sure that it won't be here within 3 years as it would take at least a year to approve along with another 2 years to build under the optimal situation. And the flip side of the coin is that we might also not even have rail a decade from now.

Walker said:
Again, I'm not necessarily opposed to the bus trolley idea. Feel free to rally the support base for a bus trolley and I'll sign the petition. But I'd rather put any energy I have for advocacy today into rail-based transit support first. Sallimsayin'.

I don't live there now so I'm not going to rally the troops for anything. Since I've seen it work well in other places I thought I'd put the ideal out there to those who are in a position to do so. It just seem like to me it would make sense to put energy toward something that could actually be implemented in months that could also help get rail down the line. Plus I would think the "advocacy" would be for better public transit. I find it hard to believe that somehow any time spent advocating for a downtown circulator would somehow take away from advocating for light rail.

Posted 4 months ago #
InnerCore

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Walker said:
I thought we were talking about the idea of identical routes being upgraded over time. Taking a route that is pretty much similar to what the #21 currently runs (at night) and replacing it with a trolley bus (all day) with the thought that it would eventually be replaced by a rail-based mode in the future.

No I'm not talking about taking a bus route away for a trolley route. I'm talking about running the free trolley route in addition to the bus route. The routes that run along High st. downtown go out further. Which means they'll have more people on them. The goal is to have an additional bus/trolley running only downtown so that it would be predominantly downtown residents, workers, tourist, etc. Which is how you get people who don't ride the bus, to actually ride the bus.

Posted 4 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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geoyui said:
Some people are just not keen to following directions. My fiance will get lost, call me for directions, and get frustrated, and she's lived here for over 6 years.

Couldn't this line help with improving ridership and increasing awareness on the convenience and ease of mass transit? Having this route could introduce to non traditional riders that you don't have to drive everyday.

I realize everything costs money, but is it too much to try and support the tourism industry, and one of the city's most business heavy neighborhoods, with 1 free bus line?

So how is a free trolley going to improve way finding? You still have to know the start and end stops.

Again, not really against it. We used the free trolley in Old San Juan. It was ok but you still had to know where the stops were and where you wanted to go.

Posted 4 months ago #
bucki12
wp
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I like the idea that it is a limited route and runs between set times at set intervals. If you miss your stop you aren't going to end up at Graceland and you don't need a schedule if you know it goes back and forth every 10 minutes until midnight. It is near as foolproof as transit can get.

Since it is aimed at tourists and non-traditional riders the limited route will also allow the operator to concentrate on helping this subset of riders.

Posted 4 months ago #
InnerCore

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lifeontwowheels said:
So how is a free trolley going to improve way finding? You still have to know the start and end stops.

Again, not really against it. We used the free trolley in Old San Juan. It was ok but you still had to know where the stops were and where you wanted to go.

Because it runs up and down along a straight line. There's pretty much no chance of getting lost because it only runs downtown.

Let's say I'm at Columbus Commons at the bus stop and I want to go to SN. Most people don't want to figure out which bus to get on. After all your only going up and down one street. So I hop on the next bus that is coming and its the 3, 6, 13, 18, 19, etc. There are plenty of buses that are going to turn off of High st. before you get to SN.

With a circulator there isn't that problem. I see the trolley I get on. All I need to know is whether I'm going north or south so I know what side of the street to stand on. You a tourist and you're staying downtown. You've got zero chance of getting lost. Worst case scenario you miss you stop and have to tour downtown in a circle ending up right back where you started at.

Posted 4 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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InnerCore said:
Because it runs up and down along a straight line. There's pretty much no chance of getting lost because it only runs downtown.

Let's say I'm at Columbus Commons at the bus stop and I want to go to SN. Most people don't want to figure out which bus to get on. After all your only going up and down one street. So I hop on the next bus that is coming and its the 3, 6, 13, 18, 19, etc. There are plenty of buses that are going to turn off of High st. before you get to SN.

With a circulator there isn't that problem. I see the trolley I get on. All I need to know is whether I'm going north or south so I know what side of the street to stand on. You a tourist and you're staying downtown. You've got zero chance of getting lost. Worst case scenario you miss you stop and have to tour downtown in a circle ending up right back where you started at.

Do most people have the same attitude when they rent a car? Don't want to figure out which road they need to get on?

Posted 4 months ago #
geoyui
West Side
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lifeontwowheels said:
Do most people have the same attitude when they rent a car? Don't want to figure out which road they need to get on?

I don't think that's applicable. People who rent cars will control their path, people of mass transit know their path is already determined.

Posted 4 months ago #
bucki12
wp
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I think a lot of people would be using the circulator in lieu of taxicabs or just staying put in a general area.

Posted 4 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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geoyui said:
I don't think that's applicable. People who rent cars will control their path, people of mass transit know their path is already determined.

I'm just trying to understand the attitude of not doing even 5 minutes of research or asking a driver basic info before you get on. If you rent a car as a tourist you are either going to use the GPS or ask directions. Why not with transit?

Posted 4 months ago #
DavidF
Elysium Fields
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lifeontwowheels said:
I'm just trying to understand the attitude of not doing even 5 minutes of research or asking a driver basic info before you get on. If you rent a car as a tourist you are either going to use the GPS or ask directions. Why not with transit?

Should and do are two different things. If you want to convince people to use alternative forms of transit, maybe coming down off the high horse is a good place to start.

Posted 4 months ago #
geoyui
West Side
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lifeontwowheels said:
I'm just trying to understand the attitude of not doing even 5 minutes of research or asking a driver basic info before you get on. If you rent a car as a tourist you are either going to use the GPS or ask directions. Why not with transit?

well, even local residents get lost, in their car, walking or on the bus. I'm fairly good with directions but even I have taken a wrong turn in the city.

Posted 4 months ago #
jbCBUS

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http://houston.culturemap.com/newsdetail/06-13-12-houston-free-downtown-trolley-greenlink-only-its-an-air-conditioned-bus-blowing-natural-gas/

"The 18-stop, 2.5 mile circular route through downtown connects cultural centers and tourist destinations, METRO transit hubs and entertainment, to provide Houstonians and visitors with free and easy transit..."

Posted 3 months ago #