Proposal to Reroute some COTA Buses from High Street to Front Street

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Proposal to Reroute some COTA Buses from High Street to Front Street

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Started 8 months ago by News
Latest reply from Cole

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News
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What began as a plan to add a Downtown Transit Station has morphed into a proposal to reroute many major bus lines from High Street to Front Street to better accommodate on-street parking and retail development on High:

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Proposed bus reroute would shift traffic from High Street
By Robert Vitale
The Columbus Dispatch
Thursday September 29, 2011 8:43 AM

They’ve not budged in opposing a transit center, but COTA officials took steps yesterday to appease Downtown planners with a proposal to reroute 168 buses a day away from High Street.

A 2010 update of the city’s Downtown plan suggested that the buses and bus riders converging on High Street near Broad have choked off retail business along the corridor.

READ MORE: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/09/29/proposed-bus-reroute-would-shift-traffic-from-high-street.html

Posted 8 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Personally, I'm in favor of rerouting a bus line or two by a block or two as long as it means an increase in metered parking on High Street through the core of Downtown.

Posted 8 months ago #
Michael The G
South C-Ville
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Hmm.. I'm a little dubious about the "choked off" claim. That the transit nodes are on street level is foolish to begin with and it seems a better long term answer would be to carve space where multiple lines and routes would converge. This would both allow for more metered parking and neatly avoid my second and rather larger concern.

To whit, I have serious concerns about separating the two busiest lines in the city. To you and I, a block may not seem like much but to many differently-abled passengers who rely on mass transit as their primary form of mobility, a block might as well be a mile. Especially during the 3-4 months a year when we have potentially hazardous walking conditions due to icing etc.

On another note, haven't we been striving to get people OUT of their cars and into alternate modes of transportation in the city the last 3+ years? Making the 2 busiest lines in town LESS convenient is simply making it that much more likely that people will eschew commuting to work by bus and will drive in instead.

The answers that will best suit the most people while fostering a positive retail environment are not as simple as rerouting "a line or two" and to pretend otherwise is to ignore the purpose of our transit systems in the first place. (BTW, Walker, that's not directed at you, you just happened to be the only other poster so far :)

Posted 7 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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I'd have to ask if an adjustment to the routes make them any less convenient though? It sound like you're implying that it is, but that's really up to individual riders, their destinations, and whether or not they're transferring.

If someone rides the #1 now to get to a job on Front Street, they have to get off at High and walk a block. A reroute would make it more convenient.

If someone rides the #1 to transfer to the #2 at Broad & High, then they can still do exactly that with this proposed reroute.

The article indicates that the reroute would add two extra blocks to a walk for people riding that line who are trying to get to the Arena District. I'd love to know how many people on average use that as their destination when riding, and how many would choose to transfer to another bus if the distance is that far.

I'm not advocating moving bus lines if it interferes too much with access for bus riders, and we should definitely take all factors into consideration, especially the needs of people who are not as mobile as others, but I think there is probably some research and data that can be found that could provide better information on what we're looking at other than assuming this line is more/less convenient for everyone overall.

Posted 7 months ago #
kessler
Georgian Heights
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So a bus stop would be available near Broad & High before it gets to Front? Since I know some people have to run currently to catch their transfer.

If parking is added to High, would parking be removed from Front to make room for bus stops? (so would we actually gain/lose parking spots in the end?)

Posted 7 months ago #
cbustransit

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lets build a transit center underneath broad and high. the bus lanes in both directions on broad and high could just dip underground briefly. genius.

Posted 7 months ago #
tree_sketcher
Columbus
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Seattle has an underground bus tunnel for light rail and buses. Also toronto has several areas where streetcars go underground and drop passengers off in subgrade terminals.

Seriously though, would it be worthwhile for Cbus to study a big idea like this as a potential solution? I think it would be if it offered expanded & more efficient transit service AND helped to bolster High Street retail and downtown economic development.

Posted 7 months ago #
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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tree_sketcher said:
Seattle has an underground bus tunnel for light rail and buses. Also toronto has several areas where streetcars go underground and drop passengers off in subgrade terminals.

Seriously though, would it be worthwhile for Cbus to study a big idea like this as a potential solution? I think it would be if it offered expanded & more efficient transit service AND helped to bolster High Street retail and downtown economic development.

unfortunately the surface geology of columbus doesn't really lend itself to cost-effective tunneling. No good solid rock for 'bout 100 feet down. Be really nice if we could do that though. Heck if we could do that we could put in a subway.

Seems to me that if they really want to be able to free up high street they're going to have to move almost all the bus traffic somewhere. There are a LOT of lines that run on high and a lot of people have to transfer there. This might really be best done as an all or nothing proposition. A.k.a. a transit center of some form.

Posted 7 months ago #
Michael The G
South C-Ville
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Some good points there Walker.

Mea Culpa, I misread the proposed map changeover as it relates to High and Broad. Thanks for the clarification.

I would hope that if the only transfer point available to riders were at Broad and High, that a suitable solution will be found for moving the current Southbound High st. stop closer to the intersection and that a bus shelter would be built fronting Broad St Westbound.

I am unsure how the "2 blocks" number was reached though. If someone rides the #1 to their job at say Nationwide, it goes from less than 2 blocks to 6. That's not bad in spring , summer, or fall but a bit of a hike in winter. It would be interesting to get reliable destination data on ridership and destination that was more than just a "x got on, y got off" to further gauge the potential ridership impact.

Do you think that additional metered parking along southbound High St. between Long and Mound would have the desired effect?

Posted 7 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Michael The G said:
I am unsure how the "2 blocks" number was reached though. If someone rides the #1 to their job at say Nationwide, it goes from less than 2 blocks to 6. That's not bad in spring , summer, or fall but a bit of a hike in winter.

If your walk commute shifts to six blocks, I'd recommend a transfer. There's quite a few routes running regularly north/south between Broad & Nationwide. You can catch one every 2 or 3 minutes.

This is coming from a guy who regularly hops a bus from Gay Street to ride two blocks south to State Street to go to CVS. Just because there's always a bus coming anyway. ;)

Posted 7 months ago #
fringeoutfitters
Columbus reviving its urban core
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Dispatch: "Some see discrimination in COTA Downtown reroute plan"

By Robert Vitale
The Columbus Dispatch
Monday October 10, 2011 12:16 AM

Willis Bryant has heard why Downtown planners want to reroute the COTA bus that takes him from the East Side to Columbus State, to Cleveland Avenue stores and back home again.
But when he listens to their argument — that lines of buses and crowds of riders are hurting efforts to fill High Street storefronts — he hears something else.
“They don’t want people who look like me,” said Bryant, who is black.

Read more

I am all for the re-routing of the majority of busses off of High on the Downtown Mile on High area. From a business owners/retail perspective this is common sense. The area and Downtown needs the retail to fill in and metered parking is the best solution to this problem. In my opinion this has little to nothing to do with racial discrimination or elitism and more to do with improving the economic strength of Downtown. Any positive impact Downtown should be beneficial for everyone. COTA should also let the number 2 travel on front st and I'd be happy with that. The complaint of it being too far and inconvenient explains just how lazy we are in this city. If you happen to ride in the other 13-14 largest metro cities, walking a few blocks or transferring isn't a huge deal. If this returns and creates jobs like city planners and leaders expect. It should happen.

Posted 7 months ago #
mrsgeedeck
Castle of Lions
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As someone who used to frequently ride the #1, and currently drives down Spring fairly often, I think this route change make sense (and applies to the #9 as well). The current route down Spring is totally wonky, there are about two or three stops on the right hand of the street before Fourth, and then the bus crosses every single lane of traffic in order to make a left hand turn onto High.
Also, while I know the normal line up is supposed to occur at Broad, often I've seen three and four buses stopped in the area near the Commons. While I hope the people getting on and off at this spot are frequenting downtown business, the busses themselves block the business from view.

Posted 7 months ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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^Excellent use of the term "wonky."

Posted 7 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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To me, the solution lies with adding on-street parking. That's what retail on High needs. While the bus lineups can block visibility of businesses at certain times during the day, the bigger issue is that the current "transit mall" configuration doesn't allow for on-street parking.

If we reroute buses without adding on-street parking, then the impact on assisting retail will be minimal.

Posted 7 months ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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Walker said:
To me, the solution lies with adding on-street parking. That's what retail on High needs. While the bus lineups can block visibility of businesses at certain times during the day, the bigger issue is that the current "transit mall" configuration doesn't allow for on-street parking.

If we reroute buses without adding on-street parking, then the impact on assisting retail will be minimal.

I think this is true. If they're going to do this, they need to move enough buses to allow parking at least during off-peak hours.

Posted 7 months ago #
wynnie
University District
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I agree that this proposal is racist and has little to do with parking. One only needs to look at the reader comments on the Dispatch web site to confirm that this issue is about getting the "undesirables" off High Street. When they comment, "The people have no business even being downtown, only there to live off government programs. There is constant drug dealing going on and yes, most of the riders look like complete thugs."

This is overt Jim Crow-style discrimination. No group of people are "FILTHY MAGGOTS."

Also, aren't the High Street line-ups in front of the Statehouse (northbound) and COTA headquarters (southbound)? Isn't business doing well there? I don't see any empty storefronts in those line-up locations. However, I do agree that idle times could be shortened.

Posted 7 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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wynnie said:
One only needs to look at the reader comments on the Dispatch web site to confirm that this issue is about getting the "undesirables" off High Street.

The Dispatch commentators are hardly an accurate sample size for measuring anything. Please don't bring their bigoted comments over here, because no one here is saying anything like that. We're trying to have a more thoughtful and productive conversation here.

wynnie said:
Also, aren't the High Street line-ups in front of the Statehouse (northbound) and COTA headquarters (southbound)? Isn't business doing well there? I don't see any empty storefronts in those line-up locations. However, I do agree that idle times could be shortened.

Northbound in front of the Statehouse = The statehouse. There's no retail there.

Southbound in front of COTA HQ includes multiple vacant retail spaces, and others that are underutilized.

Retail is more vibrant on High Street in the Short North and German Village / Brewery District where there is on-street metered parking on High. It suffers through all of Downtown where there is none.

Posted 7 months ago #
wynnie
University District
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I'm just saying that there are a lot of closed-minded people out there... and that's reality...Similarly, one may also be bold to assume that most folks on CU are left-leaning (like me)...therefore, it's hardly an accurate sampling of the "majority opinion." So, to be fair, somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

I know that the statehouse has no storefronts, that's why I wrote it...because the point of line-ups "driving away business" is moot. Also, there are maybe three empty store fronts at the north corner Broad and High, but it's 75% occupied, which is better than Broad Street, where there are no line-ups.

We all want to see downtown thriving, but I'm not going to back down in any fashion when I argue that moving routes off of High Street is racially-motivated.

Posted 7 months ago #
fringeoutfitters
Columbus reviving its urban core
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wynnie said:
I agree that this proposal is racist and has little to do with parking. One only needs to look at the reader comments on the Dispatch web site to confirm that this issue is about getting the "undesirables" off High Street. When they comment, "The people have no business even being downtown, only there to live off government programs. There is constant drug dealing going on and yes, most of the riders look like complete thugs."

This is overt Jim Crow-style discrimination. No group of people are "FILTHY MAGGOTS."

Also, aren't the High Street line-ups in front of the Statehouse (northbound) and COTA headquarters (southbound)? Isn't business doing well there? I don't see any empty storefronts in those line-up locations. However, I do agree that idle times could be shortened.

Wynnie, although this first move brings the #1 off of High st, I think once this is tested out, COTA will bring more busses off of High. Bringing metered parking onto High and therefore retail, will offer COTA passengers of all ethnicities more products and services for them to enjoy along their commuting experience. This also has the potential to provide minority owned business a chance to launch their business Downtown. Think of the amount of jobs this can bring for #1 riders who rely on jobs along the route or Downtown. Although it seems harsh that they are wanting to take the #1 to Front st as the first test, it has the best rerouting plan and seems ideal.

I personally avoid the Dispatch Comment section because there are often classist and racist statements there. I don't think those statements reflect the majority of the way people in our society feel or even COTA for that matter.

Posted 7 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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wynnie said:
I'm just saying that there are a lot of closed-minded people out there... and that's reality...Similarly, one may also be bold to assume that most folks on CU are left-leaning (like me)...therefore, it's hardly an accurate sampling of the "majority opinion." So, to be fair, somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

But the general public is not proposing this idea. It's something that was originally announced during the development of the 2010 Downtown Development plan, and the effort is being spearheaded by COTA, The City of Columbus, The SID and a few other related organizations. If you're claiming it's racially-charged, then you should be reviewing the information presented by those groups, and not the kneejerk reactions of the general public in any capacity.

There could be a news story proclaiming that the sky is blue and there would be racist remarks from idiots in the world... but that doesn't mean the sky is a racist.

wynnie said:
I know that the statehouse has no storefronts, that's why I wrote it...because the point of line-ups "driving away business" is moot. Also, there are maybe three empty store fronts at the north corner Broad and High, but it's 75% occupied, which is better than Broad Street, where there are no line-ups.

Broad Street has a whole different set of problems related to retail development. Simply put, there's no easy one-step fix. I stated earlier that rerouting buses isn't even the main issue in my opinion, the lack of public parking on High Street is. But in reality it's only one of a dozen things that needs to be done to address retail issues Downtown.

wynnie said:
We all want to see downtown thriving, but I'm not going to back down in any fashion when I argue that moving routes off of High Street is racially-motivated.

So you're going to avoid spending money at the few Downtown businesses who are attempting to make a difference and punish them because some Dispatch commentators make racist comments about a transit proposal?

Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Posted 7 months ago #