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Probably the only action Mitt Romney could do that would make some people happy would be to commit suicide.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Politics
Presidential Election 2012
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hugh59
Aboard the ultimate power in Olde Towne East
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myliftkk said:
You say you think ideas are ok, but then say that implementing them is really impossible? Besides that, you seem stuck with this idea of what a liberal is based on some caricature of a 1970s baby boom war protester. Granted, there were excesses in the 70s, I think anyone using that time period as a basis for understanding liberalism going forward hasn't paid much attention to what's happened in the interim.The 4 big government cash giveaways of the last decade have been 2 wars, the drug bill, and Bush's tax cuts. Zero were paid for and zero were planned on being paid for by the people in power at the time.
Do liberals want the government to do everything, no. Do they want the government to tackle problem of a scale, or cross-cutting concern that are very difficult to solve through private means, yes. Do they wish to bury their heads in the sand and pretend an issue does exist, no really.
No, the problem continues. Politicians in both parties feel that the way to claim success is to pass a law or enact some proposal that will solve another problem. And it is not just big programs like the senior citizen drug benefit (enacted during the Bush years but first proposed by Clinton).Since you probably think I am a lying, stupid, political hack, I invite you to look at a website set up to honor President Clinton:
The Clinton Presidency: Eight Years of Accomplisments
Also, look at the Howard Kurtz book on the Clinton Presidency (released right before the Lewinsky Scandal): SPIN CYCLE:
Amazon: SPIN CYCLE by Howard Kurtz
One way Clinton would distract the press from his problems was to propose another initiative to solve some problem. $50 million here, $100 million there. It's a small amount of money; we can afford it. But, all those programs add up.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Coremodels
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hugh59 said:
Probably the only action Mitt Romney could do that would make some people happy would be to commit suicide.I'm just holding the guy to his own standards Hugh. When you make statements like "if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president," and then choose to pay more than are legally due...don't you see that as a problem?
The entire thing is fairly disingenuous though, as I'm sure he'll file an adjustment post-election that puts him at the like 9% rate he should be at.
Posted 8 months ago # -
rus
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Coremodels said:
I'm just holding the guy to his own standards Hugh. When you make statements like "if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president," and then choose to pay more than are legally due...don't you see that as a problem?The entire thing is fairly disingenuous though, as I'm sure he'll file an adjustment post-election that puts him at the like 9% rate he should be at.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/romney_the_giver_7nLMOZGuIo2zq1LmrNInjN
We learned yesterday that last year Mitt Romney paid $1.9 million in taxes on an income of $14 million — and gave $4 million to charity.The year before, he made $21.6 million, paid $3 million in taxes and gave $3 million to charity.
So, to recap: Mitt Romney has, in the past two years, paid almost $5 million in taxes while giving away $7 million. And, as he said, he has paid the taxes he was supposed to pay according to the laws of the United States, which is all that is required — legally, morally and practically — of anyone.
If you’ve been reading my columns for the past couple of years, you know I’m perfectly capable of being critical of Romney. I did so the other day, and radio host Mark Levin called me a “trash-mouther” who was “giving aid and comfort to Obama.”
But the release of these tax records leaves no doubt about one thing: Mitt Romney is an extraordinarily, remarkably, astonishingly generous man. A good man. Maybe even a great man.
That is all. There is no “but.” Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant, stupid or a liar.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Coremodels
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Yes, he's a generous guy. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Coremodels
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rus said:
Cuts into that "evil rich guy" meme, though.Only way that survives is if private charity itself is bad and only government action is morally legitimate.
Private charity doesn't offset all other deeds. I've never particularly focused on the "evil rich guy" meme, but if Bain truly shipped jobs overseas, shuttered company after company while canning their workforces, etc. etc. etc. the amount of money he gave to charity doesn't wipe that slate clean.
I like to reserve words like "evil" for Dick Cheney though.
Posted 8 months ago # -
rus
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Coremodels said:
Private charity doesn't offset all other deeds. I've never particularly focused on the "evil rich guy" meme, but if Bain truly shipped jobs overseas, shuttered company after company while canning their workforces, etc. etc. etc. the amount of money he gave to charity doesn't wipe that slate clean.I like to reserve words like "evil" for Dick Cheney though.
Like your "if" there. Nothing needs to be proved, but you can still condemn him.
Looks like Hugh was right: the only thing Romney can do for you is die.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Coremodels
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rus said:
Like your "if" there. Nothing needs to be proved, but you can still condemn him.Looks like Hugh was right: the only thing Romney can do for you is die.
Not sure you know what "if" means, so let me clarify. "If" those things are true, then charitable contributions of any amount won't outweigh that in a lot of voters eyes...the ones who would characterize him as "evil, rich guy". I'm not one of those guys, and of the multitude of problems I do have with Romney, his work at Bain Capital isn't among them. I can give you a laundry list of things I don't like about Romney and his campaign, but the only aspect of Bain or business I'd put on it would be getting federal assistance to fund it in the first place while condemning the President's misinterpreted remarks during the whole "you didn't build that" thing.
My single biggest problem with Romney is dishonesty and hypocrisy, and that's my problem with his tax returns. He intentionally paid more taxes than he owed so that he could display a certain tax rate to voters that was in line with a statement he'd made previously. He also said that if he ever paid more taxes than he owed he wouldn't be qualified to be President. Its a shame he dug himself that kind of hole, but he dug it and he has to deal with it.
Posted 8 months ago # -
DTown
Discovery District South
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But the release of these tax records leaves no doubt about one thing: Mitt Romney is an extraordinarily, remarkably, astonishingly generous man. A good man. Maybe even a great man.
I'm not condemning the guy, giving to charity is awesome. But, is it really greatness to give away 7 million dollars when you have 29 million left over? I mean, it's not quite Mother Theresa territory, is it?
Giving millions to charity when you have hundreds of millions is certainly a nice gesture, but it doesn't convey greatness.
Posted 8 months ago # -
jackoh
The Village
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I wouldn't get too enamored with his contributions to charity. It is entirely possible the the bulk of those represent his tithing to the Mormon church, which demands at least 10% from members. And, after all, he is a major functionary in that church.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Coremodels
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jackoh said:
I wouldn't get too enamored with his contributions to charity. It is entirely possible the the bulk of those represent his tithing to the Mormon church, which demands at least 10% from members. And, after all, he is a major functionary in that church.Its not the bulk, its about 1/4. I'll definitely say that the guy is a generous giver, tax benefits or not. If you want to make any argument about his giving, it would probably be the annualized chart that shows a VERY significant increase when he entered the national political stage.
Posted 8 months ago # -
DTown
Discovery District South
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Coremodels said:
Its not the bulk, its about 1/4. I'll definitely say that the guy is a generous giver, tax benefits or not. If you want to make any argument about his giving, it would probably be the annualized chart that shows a VERY significant increase when he entered the national political stage.Would you consider him more generous than the family that just manages to provide food & shelter every month, yet still finds a way to drop $20 in the collection plate every Sunday?
I'm guessing most people would happily promise $1 million a year, if they could keep 5 million for themselves. Not convinced that's generosity though.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Coremodels
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DTown said:
Would you consider him more generous than the family that just manages to provide food & shelter every month, yet still finds a way to drop $20 in the collection plate every Sunday?I don't consider charity giving a competition, so I'll say that his giving is generous and leave it at that.
Posted 8 months ago # -
DTown
Discovery District South
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Coremodels
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Who said it...
“I respect and will protect a woman’s right to choose. This choice is a deeply personal one. Women should be free to choose based on their own beliefs, not mine and not the government’s."
"I’m in favor of stem cell research both from existing lines, as well as new lines, and would support that with federal support."
“If we are to achieve the goals we share, we must make equality for gays and lesbians a mainstream concern.”
"I don't think the federal government has any business dictating to local school boards what their curriculum or practices should be."
"the authorization of marriage on a same-sex basis falls under state jurisdiction."
“I think the minimum wage ought to keep pace with inflation.”
"I supported the assault weapon ban."
"I believe the world’s getting warmer. I can’t prove that, but I believe based on what I read that the world is getting warmer. And number two, I believe that humans contribute to that."
"we pitched the secretaries on our vision to insure all our citizens and on the need for federal support to make the vision real."
Posted 8 months ago # -
News
Columbus Underground
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Does Romney dislike America?
By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: September 19The most incisive reaction to Mitt Romney’s disparaging comments about 47 percent of us came from a conservative friend who e-mailed: “If I were you, I’d wonder why Romney hates America so much.” A bit strong, perhaps. But the more you think about what Romney said, the more you wonder how he really feels about the country he wants to lead.
READ MORE: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ej-dionne-jr-does-romney-dislike-america/2012/09/19/146e5158-0289-11e2-91e7-2962c74e7738_story.htmlPosted 8 months ago # -
rus
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DTown said:
Fair enough. I just have trouble with the people trying to beatify him because of the quantity of his giving. Charity, like taxes, needs perspective.Different things, though. If one is required to pay, say, 30% of their income in taxes and doesn't guys with guns eventually show up.
If one doesn't pay 30% of their income to charity pretty much no one cares.
Posted 8 months ago # -
SusanB
Hungarian Village, Columbus' fastest growing Gayborhood!
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But isn't almost all of Rmoney's charity giving the tithing the church requires? If you are a Mormon and do not tithe the required percentage you are not allowed in the church, literally, you can't walk in the door. Members who do not "pay a full tithe" are not permitted to enter the Mormon temples, even to attend their children's or relatives' weddings, and are taught that they will be burned at Christ's Second Coming. They are also told by their leaders that God may bless them with miracles for paying their tithing. And don't forget he is/was a Bishop in his church so he has to tithe.
Posted 8 months ago # -
rus
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SusanB said:
But isn't almost all of Rmoney's charity giving the tithing the church requires? If you are a Mormon and do not tithe the required percentage you are not allowed in the church, literally, you can't walk in the door. Members who do not "pay a full tithe" are not permitted to enter the Mormon temples, even to attend their children's or relatives' weddings, and are taught that they will be burned at Christ's Second Coming. They are also told by their leaders that God may bless them with miracles for paying their tithing. And don't forget he is/was a Bishop in his church so he has to tithe.There's a religious obligation, sure. 10%. He's donating more than that.
Which is hysterical really. Seems a number of his detractors here are atheists, so any religious obligation is something you'd think they'd either be opposed to or laugh at on it's face.
The central objection seems to be that if the government didn't do it it's not worth doing. Which is typical of the left: a sense of community is only valid if it's controlled and directed by the government. Probably because leftists either left or were rejected from other communities, but that's just speculation on my part.
More of that "government is the only thing we all belong to" nonsense. As if the racist, sexist leftists don't see identity in terms of skin tone or gender.
Posted 8 months ago #
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