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YouTubeTigertree wrote Which part?
That the majority of North Market visitors are dine-in eaters rather than shoppers.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion
Plea To North Market for Extended Hours
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Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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Posted 4 years ago # -
luchobucho
Philadelphia, PA
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Tigertree wrote I suppose they could stay open later if they wanted. It's their choice. Like it or not, more people go there to eat than to buy produce.
Really? Why don't they just call it a food court and get rid of the other stuff...
Posted 4 years ago # -
Tigertree
771 N. High St.
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Oh come on. I am glad the small stores are there and I should probably be spending more money with them than I do currently, but how many times have you stood in line to buy your wine there? How many times have you stood in line to get food there....
And regardless, less so with the frat boys of Park St. But the convention goers, I think, would spend a ton of money at the shops anyway. Everyone likes to come home with gifts indicative of where they have been. We have a lot of convention customers that have to "sneak out" to come in and pick something up from us. I think having an option to both grab a bite to eat after a long day, a souvenir for your kid and a bottle of wine to pop open while you watch CNN back in your room before the next day of endless seminars could go over pretty well.
Posted 4 years ago # -
luchobucho
Philadelphia, PA
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As a market it sucks.
Maybe they should make it a food court.
As public markets go, this one is prolly the sadest one I've been to. But I still think their hours are okay.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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Tigertree wrote Oh come on. I am glad the small stores are there and I should probably be spending more money with them than I do currently, but how many times have you stood in line to buy your wine there? How many times have you stood in line to get food there....
I can honestly say I've probably been to the North Market 20 times in the last year, and got a carryout sandwich one time...other than that it was to shop...just like what I perceived as the majority of the other people there.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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I'm going to guess that it probably depends upon the time of day you visit. If you're there around Noon or 6PM, you're probably more likely to see people getting ready-made food to go (or dine-in). During non-meal-times you're probably more likely to see more shoppers.
Posted 4 years ago # -
luchobucho
Philadelphia, PA
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Tigertree wrote Oh come on. I am glad the small stores are there and I should probably be spending more money with them than I do currently, but how many times have you stood in line to buy your wine there? How many times have you stood in line to get food there....
And regardless, less so with the frat boys of Park St. But the convention goers, I think, would spend a ton of money at the shops anyway. Everyone likes to come home with gifts indicative of where they have been. We have a lot of convention customers that have to "sneak out" to come in and pick something up from us. I think having an option to both grab a bite to eat after a long day, a souvenir for your kid and a bottle of wine to pop open while you watch CNN back in your room before the next day of endless seminars could go over pretty well.
TigreTree I totally agree with you, I think that convention-goers would probably add some business to the north market. But I am not so sure it would be as much as your suggest. But I could be wrong. I think that relying on a transient customer base to define your hours just doesn't seem like a great business decision. I'm not a business owner, and you are, so please feel free to take me to school on this one. I'm not sure what the stats are on the convention center, but i know there isn't a major convention every day, so on those days when the center is barely full, and 1000s of people aren't coming to the market, then what?
I know I talk about Philly alot, and while it has its own problems, it does a few things right. The Reading Terminal Market, which is a lot like the North Market (only larger, and with a few more produce and meat vendors) only stays open till 6pm as well. Also like the North Market it is located near (essentially under) the Philadelphia Convention Center (which does a fair amount of decent sized conventions). On some evenings, you will find 10,000s people wandering around but most nights, the area is quiet. The market has done quite well with day time hours, and I don't forsee any extension into the evening. Those marketers need rest and recoup before their next day. Hell, the amish don't work at all on sunday....
Posted 4 years ago # -
luchobucho
Philadelphia, PA
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Tigertree wrote Oh come on. I am glad the small stores are there and I should probably be spending more money with them than I do currently, but how many times have you stood in line to buy your wine there? How many times have you stood in line to get food there....
And regardless, less so with the frat boys of Park St. But the convention goers, I think, would spend a ton of money at the shops anyway. Everyone likes to come home with gifts indicative of where they have been. We have a lot of convention customers that have to "sneak out" to come in and pick something up from us. I think having an option to both grab a bite to eat after a long day, a souvenir for your kid and a bottle of wine to pop open while you watch CNN back in your room before the next day of endless seminars could go over pretty well.
Honestly, I buy more "things" there than i do food.
Its the closest meat shop and closest cheese shop........and the nearest decent bakery that is open on sundays (Piece of Cake isn't open on sundays).
Posted 4 years ago # -
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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Not to mention, I think damn near every good restaurant in town does some North Market buying as well.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Tigertree
771 N. High St.
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As far as the "transient customer base" is concerned. I can state fairly certainly that without the Abercrombie designers (and largely their internship program) and the conventions Tigertree would not still be open. So that customer base is certainly not something to discount. I could almost see the North Market catering to that other crowd at night though. It is like how I see the Short North as two totally different neighborhoods existing on the same plain. Now, I do have some problems with that and think we should be doing more to cross promote (between different industries, bars w/ shops, shops w/ galleries and so on) but as it stands now you have an 11-7 shopping neighborhood and an 8-2:30 bar neighborhood. Save for any integrity responses why can the North Market not be something like this?
I think it would at least be worth a pilot program. I wouldn't state it as a pilot program for hours, I would do something like "extended holiday hours" and try it out for November and December, really try and talk as many restaurants and vendors to keep these hours. I say that because we would be open later on a regular basis if other stores down here were. We see the mentality, right now, shifting from shopping to drinking on account of other stores not being open so we get a ton of foot traffic when we stay open late with almost no purchases. So do holiday hours, reevaluate things after the holidays and decide if it was worthwhile. My assumption is you would at least break even by staying open later, and as long as enough publicity went into it, you could see it as profitable as the lunch out.
Posted 4 years ago # -
luchobucho
Philadelphia, PA
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Tigertree wrote As far as the "transient customer base" is concerned. I can state fairly certainly that without the Abercrombie designers (and largely their internship program) and the conventions Tigertree would not still be open. So that customer base is certainly not something to discount. I could almost see the North Market catering to that other crowd at night though. It is like how I see the Short North as two totally different neighborhoods existing on the same plain. Now, I do have some problems with that and think we should be doing more to cross promote (between different industries, bars w/ shops, shops w/ galleries and so on) but as it stands now you have an 11-7 shopping neighborhood and an 8-2:30 bar neighborhood. Save for any integrity responses why can the North Market not be something like this?
I think it would at least be worth a pilot program. I wouldn't state it as a pilot program for hours, I would do something like "extended holiday hours" and try it out for November and December, really try and talk as many restaurants and vendors to keep these hours. I say that because we would be open later on a regular basis if other stores down here were. We see the mentality, right now, shifting from shopping to drinking on account of other stores not being open so we get a ton of foot traffic when we stay open late with almost no purchases. So do holiday hours, reevaluate things after the holidays and decide if it was worthwhile. My assumption is you would at least break even by staying open later, and as long as enough publicity went into it, you could see it as profitable as the lunch out.
I think extended holiday hours would be good. The REading terminal market does that in Philly. But i think your numbers would be artificially inflated as people tend to be more spend-happy during xmas season.
I dunno. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the stores stay open later on high street.....but i dunno..........argh.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Tigertree
771 N. High St.
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Well, I agree about the artificial inflation of the numbers to a point. But most established businesses do the same with-in a couple of percentage points year to year. So if we do X% more 4th quarter than we do 3rd, 2nd, 1st quarter, you can subtract the difference of that from the extended hours and get pretty close to what you would make a pretty accurate assessment of how you will do after the holiday season.
Posted 4 years ago # -
luchobucho
Philadelphia, PA
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Tigertree wrote Well, I agree about the artificial inflation of the numbers to a point. But most established businesses do the same with-in a couple of percentage points year to year. So if we do X% more 4th quarter than we do 3rd, 2nd, 1st quarter, you can subtract the difference of that from the extended hours and get pretty close to what you would make a pretty accurate assessment of how you will do after the holiday season.
Cool. I'm up for trying holiday hours.
P.S. I want that Grey Mens Coat in your store....It's to die for.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Ndcent
OTE
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Tigertree this, Tigertree that.
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I'm so over it.
Posted 4 years ago # -
columbusfoodie
West Side
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I think the North Market is dandy just the way it is. It has everything I need under one rooftop - lots of local ingredients, great food, items I can't find anywhere else (Curds and Whey, of all places, had an item I looked all over the metro area for and wasn't able to find anywhere else).
I love public markets, and go to them in almost every city I visit. My most recent ones have been the Reading Terminal Market in Philly, the West Side Market in Cleveland and the Lancaster Central Market in Lancaster, PA. Even though they had the artisinal items that I usually look for in a market, they were logistical nightmares to navigate - expensive, hard to find parking, crowds and lines everywhere, feeling like cattle being herded for the most part. I like the fact that I can go to the North Market, and that nearly every vendor there knows me by sight and/or name. I love that 90% of the time I head over there (with the exception of weekends where something is going on in the area), I can find parking no problem, and don't have to fight the crowds. I love that most of the people who go there share my foodie sensibilities and can appreciate the small subtleties that set this place apart from any other like it. I love the sense of community there, that it's the one place that everyone is familiar with and is a good central meeting ground. I love being able to take out-of-town visitors there and having their face light up when they try one of Daniel's chocolates or some of the cassoulet at NMPG, or one of Amy's fantastic cinnamon rolls, or the Salty Caramel at Jeni's.
While I wish that they had longer hours on the weekend (I could get behind a 7pm closing time), we should consider ourselves lucky that they're open every day to begin with. I think the West Side Market is open 3 or 4 days tops, and most of the vendors only show up on weekends. Ditto with the Lancaster market.
Besides, as someone noted above, most of the people run their areas themselves - and many of them have families that they are responsible to as well - many of them already spend so much time in their stores that they barely have a life outside of work as it is. If it was optional to be open after 7 (or 5), sure. But I can guarantee you (from knowing many of the people who run these places), only a handful would choose to do it.
Posted 4 years ago # -
luchobucho
Philadelphia, PA
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[quote="swampkitty"]I think the North Market is dandy just the way it is. It has everything I need under one rooftop - lots of local ingredients, great food, items I can't find anywhere else (Curds and Whey, of all places, had an item I looked all over the metro area for and wasn't able to find anywhere else).
I love public markets, and go to them in almost every city I visit. My most recent ones have been the Reading Terminal Market in Philly, the West Side Market in Cleveland and the Lancaster Central Market in Lancaster, PA. Even though they had the artisinal items that I usually look for in a market, they were logistical nightmares to navigate - expensive, hard to find parking, crowds and lines everywhere, feeling like cattle being herded for the most part. I like the fact that I can go to the North Market, and that nearly every vendor there knows me by sight and/or name. I love that 90% of the time I head over there (with the exception of weekends where something is going on in the area), I can find parking no problem, and don't have to fight the crowds. I love that most of the people who go there share my foodie sensibilities and can appreciate the small subtleties that set this place apart from any other like it.quote]
I'm sorry you found Reading Terminal Market to be a logistical nightmare. I am not sure why you tried parking at RTM, or drove your car into Center City at all. Reading Terminal Market sits ontop of a major transportation hub with 14 regional trains, a light rail stop, a subway stop, and several bus stops....within 3 blocks you've also got another subway and 5 trolley lines. Greyhound is nextdoor, which has regional service into New Jersey. And while its crowded, that is just a good sign of the market's popularity. I wish North Market could be so popular, but a lack of parking/street capacity and a reliance on car travel will always hold it back.
Posted 4 years ago # -
luchobucho
Philadelphia, PA
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Tigertree wrote I am just kind of getting a feeling from the responses here that a lot of the reluctance is from "its my place" or "I like it the way it is." Most of the problems addressed can be overcome pretty easily.
I certainly don't feel any sense of ownership over the North Market....hell, I don't even like it *that* much.
My argument simply came from my belief that extended hours wouldn't produce benefits worth the extra cost of staying open, etc. But I have said that I am willing to try an extended hour holiday season to see how things turn out. It could be good enough to convince some vendors to stay open.
Tigertree.......i want that coat.
Posted 4 years ago # -
columbusfoodie
West Side
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luchobucho wrote I'm sorry you found Reading Terminal Market to be a logistical nightmare. I am not sure why you tried parking at RTM, or drove your car into Center City at all. Reading Terminal Market sits ontop of a major transportation hub with 14 regional trains, a light rail stop, a subway stop, and several bus stops....within 3 blocks you've also got another subway and 5 trolley lines. Greyhound is nextdoor, which has regional service into New Jersey. And while its crowded, that is just a good sign of the market's popularity. I wish North Market could be so popular, but a lack of parking/street capacity and a reliance on car travel will always hold it back.
I tried parking because I was vacationing in South Jersey, and it was a 30-40 minute drive for me vs. 2 hours each way trying to navigate my way up there using NJ Transit & Septa. Greyhound doesn't go through the area of NJ I was in - if I had taken Greyhound, I would have had to go all the way to Atlantic City, and then backtracked a half hour on NJ Transit once I got there.
I parked across the street from there, it was a pain in the rear that cost way too much ($6, I think). All I was able to find there to bring back home with me was some really good artisinal cheese. I had a subpar reuben, because the lines for the cheesesteak I was craving were outrageous (even longer lines than Jim's on South Street used to have when I lived in the area). I *love* cheesesteaks, but not stand behind other people in line for an hour love. Give me the "less popular" but no huge line North Market any day. :)
The North Market *is* popular, during lunch time and on weekends. Especially when the farmer's market is going on too. There is plenty of parking for the North Market - even at the busiest times, I've never had to wait more than 2 or 3 minutes for a parking space. Usually, I have no trouble finding a metered space either. But I know if worse comes to worse, there's parking in the Vine St garage across the street.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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Tigertree wrote I am just kind of getting a feeling from the responses here that a lot of the reluctance is from "its my place" or "I like it the way it is." Most of the problems addressed can be overcome pretty easily.
If 'I like it the way it is' means I don't want a friggin' food court where there was a market, then damn skippy.
Maybe your plea should be more directed at adding food places to the SN/Arena area, not zombifying the NM.
A.
Posted 4 years ago #
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