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YouTubeCreating an entertainment district on Lane Avenue sounds like a great idea, but something would definitely need to be done about the traffic through there. The sidewalks are adequate, but the roads are designed for speed, and the safe crossing points don't seem to be as plentiful as they should be. Honestly, turning the curb lane to on-street parking in both directions with crosswalk bump outs and medians (where wide enough) would probably solve that issue *and* would add needed parking to the area *and* provide a small revenue stream through meters.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion
Upper Arlingon Entertainment District / Parking Issues on Lane Avenue
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Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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if lane were not *the* major artery through the area with few options to reroute traffic, (a la 3rd st/4th st does for high) that might work. unfortunately the street layout does not lend itself to using lane as anything but a major arterial.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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If Lane Avenue were reduced to a travel lane in each direction with a middle turn lane and metered on-street parking, it would resemble High Street in the Short North. And we all know what kind of major disaster that arterial is both for commuters and for entertainment destinations.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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Walker wrote >>
If Lane Avenue were reduced to a travel lane in each direction with a middle turn lane and metered on-street parking, it would resemble High Street in the Short North. And we all know what kind of major disaster that arterial is both for commuters and for entertainment destinations.I hear ya, I'm as big a fan of the road diet as you are. But its not a one-size fits all solution for all roads. High street is NOT handling most of the commuter traffic N/S through the SN. Summit and 4rth are doing that.
I've also lived near Lane ave for a long time, these are my observations:
unlike high street in the SN which is very congested in the afternoon/evenings mostly with people going to the SN, much of the traffic on Lane is through that neighbourhood to somewhere else entirely.
Especially in the mornings/evenings its a really large volume, larger than High street. not turning, not shopping, just straight on through. All of the through traffic in the area is actively funnelled onto that one road including two busy lanes of traffic entering the neighborhood from campus/kenny rd/sr315 (at 45mph). It is the primary east/west connector in that area with no good alternates at all.
For high street to be a correct analogy it would have to be with 3rd/4th/indianola shut down and with high handling ALL of the commuter traffic through the area. That is simply not the case with High street.
Maybe if they used a system where they turned off the meters twice a day and let the commuters use the parking lane (like they do downtown)... then it would be pretty ok.
I dunno, i'm sure there's a traffic study that would make the case one way or the other, but I would be really skeptical you could take it down to one lane each way until I see actual data for that road.
but the point is moot since I don't think anyone is even suggesting this kind of thing (except here).
Posted 9 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Yeah, probably a moot point, as I'm sure public opinion would most likely swing toward whatever is easiest for auto traffic, but I still think it would be something worth considering by the powers that be.
It's been a long time, but "back in the day" I lived on North Campus and worked out on the west side (around Trabue & 270). During non-peak hours, I'd take Lane to Trabue to get to work. During peak hours (a lot of which aligned with student traffic coming and going from west campus) I was better off taking 315 south to 670/70 west around to Wilson because Lane was such a cluster. It does get really busy through there.
While I agree with you that Lane and High differ due to other closer options, some of that through traffic does have other viable options. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that some of that traffic would flow to 5th Avenue or Fishinger, depending upon the points of origin and destination. Current traffic patterns exist because they were man-made as such, right?
I'd also love to see total traffic volumes of High compared to Lane on these stretches, just to get an idea of how they compare.
Or heck, who knows. Maybe if we designed something that was more equally accessible by bike, bus and feet then auto traffic would decrease and shift to other modes.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Analogue Kid
5th by West-Northwest
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Walker wrote >>
Really? Having a busy restaurant nearby lowers property values? It's not a strip club. The Short North has dozens of busy restaurants I don't see the nearby residential property values declining.
I think having the liquor licenses revoked from La Chatelaine, Easy Living, Piada, Pizza Hut, Speedway and The Wine Bistro would be pretty likely to close some or all of those businesses.
An abandoned retail corridor would really help those residential property values to skyrocket.I understand where you're coming from Walker, but people don't move to UA for the exciting urban environment. The people who are there now value a quiet neighborhood over all else. It's possible that new folks would move in who like a more "lively" atmosphere but that's a risky bet in a suburban area.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Analogue Kid wrote >>
Walker wrote >>
Really? Having a busy restaurant nearby lowers property values? It's not a strip club. The Short North has dozens of busy restaurants I don't see the nearby residential property values declining.
I think having the liquor licenses revoked from La Chatelaine, Easy Living, Piada, Pizza Hut, Speedway and The Wine Bistro would be pretty likely to close some or all of those businesses.
An abandoned retail corridor would really help those residential property values to skyrocket.I understand where you're coming from Walker, but people don't move to UA for the exciting urban environment. The people who are there now value a quiet neighborhood over all else. It's possible that new folks would move in who like a more "lively" atmosphere but that's a risky bet in a suburban area.
Well, in all fairness, I said that prior to knowing that the proposal for an "Entertainment District" was on the table. My point was that a vibrant retail strip of mostly respectable businesses shouldn't devalue nearby properties. Even if residents value a quiet neighborhood, they should have little problem with easy walking access to existing places like La Chatalaine or Graeter's or Half Price Books or Larson's Toys.
Furthermore, even if additional restaurants move into the area, some of which might be open later and create something a little more "lively", it's unlikely to devalue property values. If anything, the homes closest to that type of destination are more likely to increase in value, no matter how the owners of those residences may personally feel.
And as far as those individual preferences of nearby residents goes... I can't really say I have any idea of what those people value being nearby. Would have to do some sort of neighborhood poll I guess. Of course, the most angry and vocal ones are going to scream the loudest, but I don't think that means everyone in that area is "anti-vibrancy".
Posted 9 months ago # -
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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Walker wrote >>
Yeah, probably a moot point, as I'm sure public opinion would most likely swing toward whatever is easiest for auto traffic, but I still think it would be something worth considering by the powers that be.
It's been a long time, but "back in the day" I lived on North Campus and worked out on the west side (around Trabue & 270). During non-peak hours, I'd take Lane to Trabue to get to work. During peak hours (a lot of which aligned with student traffic coming and going from west campus) I was better off taking 315 south to 670/70 west around to Wilson because Lane was such a cluster. It does get really busy through there.
While I agree with you that Lane and High differ due to other closer options, some of that through traffic does have other viable options. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that some of that traffic would flow to 5th Avenue or Fishinger, depending upon the points of origin and destination. Current traffic patterns exist because they were man-made as such, right?
I'd also love to see total traffic volumes of High compared to Lane on these stretches, just to get an idea of how they compare.
Or heck, who knows. Maybe if we designed something that was more equally accessible by bike, bus and feet then auto traffic would decrease and shift to other modes.I'd like to see volume comparisons too.
5th ave is fully utilized, stuffing more traffic on that would be a disaster. Fishinger only goes to kenny rd but it does pick up a lot of traffic too. But yeah, you know what Lane's like at rush hour.
Interesting note: EAP is closing Lane ave down to one lane each way from Kenny to Riverside to bury a big transmission line. We're going to get to find out just what its like with one lane each way! A rare experimental opportunity!
Posted 9 months ago # -
rus
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Rockmastermike wrote >>
Interesting note: EAP is closing Lane ave down to one lane each way from Kenny to Riverside to bury a big transmission line. We're going to get to find out just what its like with one lane each way! A rare experimental opportunity!
The Ohio state flower ( orange barrel ) has been fully in bloom in that area for a while.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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rus wrote >>
Rockmastermike wrote >>
Interesting note: EAP is closing Lane ave down to one lane each way from Kenny to Riverside to bury a big transmission line. We're going to get to find out just what its like with one lane each way! A rare experimental opportunity!The Ohio state flower ( orange barrel ) has been fully in bloom in that area for a while.
Yeah, they were getting ready to close it down to one lane each way a few months ago but then they found out their excavation was going to need more room, so they wanted to take it down to one lane total. UA put the kaibash on that and made them postpone until they could find a better solution. Not sure when they're going to start now.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Well, that will only be a "half" experiment since there won't be any on-street parking created, nor will the Entertainment District be complete. So essentially we'll be looking at the congestion aspect without some of the parking alleviation or enhanced neighborhood walkability (which could potentially lead to decreased congestion).
Either way, I imagine it's not happening the way I envision that it should. ;) And that's fine. I'm not planning to move to UA.
Posted 9 months ago # -
HighLife
Grandview
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Somewhat relevant to the discussion of traffic on Lane Ave.: The front page of today's Metro section in the Dispatch contains a large picture of a car that drove into freshly poured concrete while attempting to execute a U-turn on Lane near Kenny. I guess at least one person ("a man who wouldn't give his name") found the current traffic volume to be unacceptable...
Posted 9 months ago # -
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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HighLife wrote >>
Somewhat relevant to the discussion of traffic on Lane Ave.: The front page of today's Metro section in the Dispatch contains a large picture of a car that drove into freshly poured concrete while attempting to execute a U-turn on Lane near Kenny. I guess at least one person ("a man who wouldn't give his name") found the current traffic volume to be unacceptable...
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/27/metro-wild-stuck-car-0527-art-gr8cqnrl-1.htmlThe picture of the guys trying to push the car backwards out/through fresh concrete is priceless. LOL
I hope they charge the driver for the time/materials to reseat that concrete.
Posted 9 months ago # -
rus
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Rockmastermike wrote >>
HighLife wrote >>
Somewhat relevant to the discussion of traffic on Lane Ave.: The front page of today's Metro section in the Dispatch contains a large picture of a car that drove into freshly poured concrete while attempting to execute a U-turn on Lane near Kenny. I guess at least one person ("a man who wouldn't give his name") found the current traffic volume to be unacceptable...
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/27/metro-wild-stuck-car-0527-art-gr8cqnrl-1.htmlThe picture of the guys trying to push the car backwards out/through fresh concrete is priceless. LOL
I hope they charge the driver for the time/materials to reseat that concrete.*snicker*
I enjoy the suffering of others as much as the next guy, but I understand the frustration.
Posted 9 months ago # -
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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Rockmastermike wrote >>
...but I would be really skeptical you could take it down to one lane each way until I see actual data for that road.MORPC has a map of traffic count data here, but it's all in Average Annual Daily Traffic (AADT) volumes. Lane had somewhere between 14,401 and 16,201 vehicles per day (averaged over all 365 days) in 1991. Unfortunately, there's nothing more recent shown. This probably isn't useful to lay people without some context anyway.
Context:
Empirically, the capacity of a freeway is about 2,000 vehicles per hour per lane. This assumes a following distance of a little less than 2 seconds per vehicle. On a non-freeway, the capacity depends on how much of the signal cycle is devoted to green time for the major street. Let's say the capacity of an arterial like Lane Ave is about 60% of a freeway, or 1,200 vehicles per hour per lane.If the AADT is about 85% of the weekday average daily traffic (ADT) volume, and the AADT is 16,000, then the ADT is about 18,800. The peak hour volume can be assumed to be about 10% of the ADT, so it's about 1,880 vehicles per hour. You can assume about 60% of that in the peak direction, or 1,128 vehicles per hour. So the volume (1,128) might be under the capacity (1,200) of a single lane, but just barely. Considering that I used rules of thumb instead of actual data and the Highway Capacity Manual, it's borderline for a road diet.
Here's another idea. Why not allow parking in off-peak hours when you don't need the capacity? Put up some signs that say no parking 7-9 AM and 4-6 PM M-F, and allow parking at all other times. We do this in Chicago all the time.
PS - If you're interested in comparisons, Fishinger (4 lanes) had 13,244 vehicles per day just west of Kenny in 2009 and 5th Ave (3 lanes) had 14,910 just east of Grandview Ave in 2009.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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johnwirtz wrote >>
Here's another idea. Why not allow parking in off-peak hours when you don't need the capacity? Put up some signs that say no parking 7-9 AM and 4-6 PM M-F, and allow parking at all other times. We do this in Chicago all the time.hey, yeah. I suggested that (in less precise language). I think it would work given your figures. Assuming 1991 data is still valid (which might be a stretch, it seems to me that it's busier now but I dont trust my memory that much)
Always really glad to hear from someone who actually knows what they're talking about! Thanks!
Anyone reading this in UA? Might be worth the time/money to study the idea.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Thanks for the data and analysis, John. Always helpful on topics like these. ;)
johnwirtz wrote >>
Here's another idea. Why not allow parking in off-peak hours when you don't need the capacity? Put up some signs that say no parking 7-9 AM and 4-6 PM M-F, and allow parking at all other times. We do this in Chicago all the time.There are parking restrictions like these all over Downtown (though some have been removed in the past few years). I'm not sure if they're as necessary as they once were, and they're just all around bad mojo for the are.
Last week I sat on the patio at 4pm at Jury Room with JimL2 and watched a wave of tow trucks swoop onto Mound Street, removed 6 or 7 vehicles and zip away with them to the impound lot. Mound barely had any traffic on it as is, and you can be sure that those 6 or 7 car owners will be thinking twice about coming Downtown again anytime soon. It's a pretty traumatizing event, and if there are safer parking alternatives in the suburbs, it's one more reason not to venture into the city.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Pablo
Crestview Addition
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Rockmastermike wrote >>
johnwirtz wrote >>
Here's another idea. Why not allow parking in off-peak hours when you don't need the capacity? Put up some signs that say no parking 7-9 AM and 4-6 PM M-F, and allow parking at all other times. We do this in Chicago all the time.hey, yeah. I suggested that (in less precise language). I think it would work given your figures. Assuming 1991 data is still valid (which might be a stretch, it seems to me that it's busier now but I dont trust my memory that much)
Always really glad to hear from someone who actually knows what they're talking about! Thanks!
Anyone reading this in UA? Might be worth the time/money to study the idea.Yeah, I mentioned this earlier in the thread - it seems like a no brainer...
Posted 8 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Upper Arlington entertaining options on Lane
Wednesday, June 1, 2011 12:17 PM
By CHRIS BOURNEA
ThisWeek Community NewspapersThe creation of an entertainment district along Lane Avenue is one of the hotly debated topics that came up during a May 25 public meeting to discuss traffic and parking issues in the area. Upper Arlington City Council is expected to address the entertainment district issue at its June 13 meeting.
Posted 8 months ago #
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