Twixlen
Westgate, Columbus
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Is anyone following this? It's a very strange thing to happen - I mean. Norway. Downtown politial offices (potentially Prime Minister's offices) were hit, plus a youth Labour (Labour party) camp was being fired upon (in a different part of the country).
Best coverage right now is BBC - U.S. stations are just talking about it being HOT. And there being DEBT.
rus
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http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/bomb-blast-shooting-at-1034572.html
At Utoya, an island outside Oslo, a gunman dressed in a police uniform opened fire at a Labor Party youth camp, shooting several youths, party spokesman Per Gunnar Dahl told The Associated Press."There has been an incident where a man dressed in a police uniform started shooting among the youngsters on the island. This created a panic situation where people started to swim from the island" to escape, he said. Dahl said unconfirmed reports said five people were hit.
It wasn't immediately clear if the two attacks were related.
Be a hell of a coincidence if they weren't related.
rus
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Twixlen said:
Yeah - they are now saying they were connected. Had to be. Hearing that the island saw a lot of casualties/deaths.
Apparently the political party holding the youth gathering on the island is the party of the prime minister.
Photos of the bomb damage:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14254095
Looks to be a decent sized VBIED.
rus
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rus
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Twixlen said:
Dude on BBC is talking about how people in Norway (all of Scandinavia) have a very secure sense of their public and social space - that an attack like this will have a deeper, harder impact in a place like Norway because of it.
Probably a similar effect to what was seen in Sweden after the Pamle assassination.
catnfiddle
Giant Corncob District
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I have to admit to having to read the early reports a couple of times while blinking. It seems about as unlikely a place for an attack as Antarctica. Has anyone claimed responsibility or given an explanation?
rus
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catnfiddle said:
I have to admit to having to read the early reports a couple of times while blinking. It seems about as unlikely a place for an attack as Antarctica. Has anyone claimed responsibility or given an explanation?
None that I've heard of as yet, although there is a list of the usual suspects:
http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL6E7IM13Y20110722?sp=true
Liner Notes
Short North
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From the NY Times:
"A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami, or the Helpers of the Global Jihad, issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at C.N.A., a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, according to Mr. McCants’ translation, apparently referring to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come.” The claim could not be confirmed."
rus
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8655175/Oslo-explosion-live-coverage.html
18.03 Will McCants now says that Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (Helpers of Global Jihad) seem to make a claim of responsibility. They claim it is in response to the occupation of Afghanistan and insults to the Prophet Mohammed. It has come via Shmukh, an elite jihadi forum
ETA: Obviously, not sure at this point we can trust the source.
UPDATE 11:38 PDT: Now Will McCants has this: "'Helpers of Global Jihad' now says its claim is not the official claim and it had nothing to do w/ operation. Says wait for official claim."
rus
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Reports now of explosives found on the island where the shooting took place.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/22/us-norway-explosion-explosives-idUSTRE76L64S20110722
poligirl
Downtown
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The 24hr media biffed it again by jumping to conclusions. I caught the story as it broke on CNNInternational, and it was, as another poster mentioned, all the usual suspects. They had all the "experts" on, who were all assured that it was Al Qaeda, Muslim extremists, etc. The BBC was just as bad. Yet, other than a knee-jerk reaction, their conclusions didn't make sense. I mean, these groups tend towards the apolitical; I don't think there's much differentiation between Labour or Socialists, or Moderates, etc. I remember emailing my husband in Sweden and saying "this is some home grown extremist business. It's political." Sure enough, the shooter is (at least at this point) identified as a tall blonde right-winger citizen. Now the media has been quick to edit themselves, complete with new "experts" on how it's obvious it wasn't Al Qaeda. Sigh.
heresthecasey
OSU
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poligirl said:
The 24hr media biffed it again by jumping to conclusions. I caught the story as it broke on CNNInternational, and it was, as another poster mentioned, all the usual suspects. They had all the "experts" on, who were all assured that it was Al Qaeda, Muslim extremists, etc. The BBC was just as bad. Yet, other than a knee-jerk reaction, their conclusions didn't make sense. I mean, these groups tend towards the apolitical; I don't think there's much differentiation between Labour or Socialists, or Moderates, etc. I remember emailing my husband in Sweden and saying "this is some home grown extremist business. It's political." Sure enough, the shooter is (at least at this point) identified as a tall blonde right-winger citizen. Now the media has been quick to edit themselves, complete with new "experts" on how it's obvious it wasn't Al Qaeda. Sigh.
I don't think the coverage was out of line at all. I was watching the BBC and they mentioned all kinds of possibilities, Muslim Jihadists, Right-Wing Extremists, home grown independent terrorists, and even the chance of it being an accidental explosion. No one jumped to any conclusions.
Experts were brought on to identify motives for each "suspect". This included Norway's support in Afghanistan and Libya, publishing the cartoons of Muhammad, and a recent prosecution of an Islamic terrorist in the country as possible provocations for an extremist Muslim attack. They also mentioned the government's support of Multiculturalism, and an increase in tension related to immigration as possible provocation of Right-Wing groups. And of course the always-possible "Lone Gunman" nut-case was brought up in comparison with the Oklahoma City bombings. Finally, an accidental explosion was investigated and somewhat de-bunked by researching natural gas infrastructure in Oslo.
All possibilities were clearly mentioned and looked at. There was no jump to conclusions. They mentioned when a Muslim group claimed responsibility online, but also said how it was unconfirmed, and how such groups often stake claim to attacks they they had no part in committing. When this turned out to look like the case here as well, they quickly identified it as so.
I thought the coverage was fair and well-done, (a rarity I realise in our current media landscape). They provided all the newsworthy information they had as quick as possible and in a professional, well-reasoned manner. In my opinion it seems your criticism itself is a knee-jerk reaction, and not really backed up by anything I've seen today.
poligirl
Downtown
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Hey, I think this is the first time I get to use that "YMMV"! The coverage I saw, as one, lone individual, working with the tv on, struck me as very much in the direction of the Al Qaeda/Muslim extremist angle, and pretty light on alternatives.
rus
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heresthecasey said:
All possibilities were clearly mentioned and looked at. There was no jump to conclusions. They mentioned when a Muslim group claimed responsibility online, but also said how it was unconfirmed, and how such groups often stake claim to attacks they they had no part in committing. When this turned out to look like the case here as well, they quickly identified it as so.
Apparently a couple of militant islamic groups took credit. While unconfirmed, in that circumstance it's not out of bounds to say "islamic radicals suspected".
Bear
The woods
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rus said:
Apparently a couple of militant islamic groups took credit. While unconfirmed, in that circumstance it's not out of bounds to say "islamic radicals suspected".
Yeah, and it was actually buzz on one of the password-protected jihad fora that McCants frequents, so it wasn't totally without foundation. But there really wasn't much of a history of that sort of thing to back it up... nor was there a history of right-wing violence, really, either. All in all, hedging was (would have been) wise.
rus
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Bear said:
Yeah, and it was actually buzz on one of the password-protected jihad fora that McCants frequents, so it wasn't totally without foundation. But there really wasn't much of a history of that sort of thing to back it up... nor was there a history of right-wing violence, really, either. All in all, hedging was (would have been) wise.
Not entirely without precedent in the region...
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