NYC Cracking Down on Cyclists in 2012 with Law Enforcement

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NYC Cracking Down on Cyclists in 2012 with Law Enforcement

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Started 4 months ago by Walker
Latest reply from Coremodels

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Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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An interesting read on an issue that has been addressed multiple times here on CU. I'd rather not re-start a "bikes vs cars" pissing match, so let's please keep this on topic.

Obviously, NYC has a larger number of bike commuters, so the "crackdown" discussed below is probably more warranted than it would be in Columbus, but I wonder how much more time we have until we get to this point where an increase in proper rule enforcement will be necessary. Perhaps once we have more adequate bikeways? Or if the 2% mark by 2012 is achieved?

http://www.considerbiking.org/activities/2-by-2012/

----------------

More Cyclist Crackdown Promised By City Council In 2012

James Vacca, chair of the City Council Transportation Committee, says he will push through tough new safety rules for cyclists in 2012 and demand strict enforcement of the current laws. In an interview with CBS 2, Vacca says, "We’ve got to make it clear that when you use a bicycle you have to go the right way on a one way street, you have to obey red lights, you have to stay off sidewalks. You have to consider motorists and pedestrians. You have to consider all users of public space in the city."

READ MORE: http://gothamist.com/2011/12/27/more_cyclist_crackdown_promised_by.php

Posted 4 months ago #
Twixlen
Westgate, Columbus
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I would like to see a city-wide campaign along the lines of "Bike With, Walk Against" --- it's epidemic on the west side (and likely other parts of the city) that folks just don't know where they're supposed to be, in reference to vehicular traffic.

And yeah, as Columbus gains more bikers, the lack of public education (because people have to seek it out, and many won't/don't), and the lack of enforcement will become an issue.

Posted 4 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Enforcement can be a good thing but these crackdowns are pretty short sighted and only serve as a quick fix to score points for the politicians and to satisfy the entitlement mentality many drivers have, despite all legal and historical precedent to the contrary. Does enforcement really have much effect? Does it work now when we enforce traffic laws?

I'll keep saying it: education and culture change are the keys to changing behaviors of both cyclists and motorists to make the roads safer for everyone. It's not an easy road, it takes leadership and political courage and will be scoffed at by most.

Change the culture by changing the built environment. We have great intentions around cycling in our region-but how does that saying go? The road to hell being paved with those good intentions?

Change the design, make our standards higher. One poster commented here recently about their commute between German Village and Downtown and how their perception of safety led them to routinely go through red lights to get a jump and get to a safer speed. Which is better long term? Taking a cop off his beat to sit and write tickets at that light for cyclists? Or changing the built environment to include traffic signals specific to cyclists? Changing the built environment to be more conducive to life outside rush hour? It works well in world class bike cities which I believe we are claiming to be.

You know what else would work? Change our driver licensing procedures. How does this relate to cycling? Well, despite the stereotypes we often hear, many of those cyclists will have a drivers license. Include cycling to a greater degree on the license test and require the test to be retaken at a regular interval. Take the headlight law enacted a few years ago requiring you to turn on lights when wipers are in use. How often do we see this broken? Require drivers to know the laws; it'll trickle down to cyclists since most will be taking that test.

Publish cycling materials in other languages. How simple is this? Does MORPC offer the bike map in a language other than English? Is the map available at homeless shelters, food pantries and other service orgs? (According to their website, it appears to be no on both counts.)

We're having pretty good feedback on How We Roll at OSU. Education can definitely be made accessible and even desirable if done in the right way.

I'll be pretty blunt on this point: I will be pretty damn pissed if Columbus finds the money to sit a cop on a corner and hand out tickets for cyclists while my neighborhood continues to see vandalism, theft, arson, prostitution, drugs and murder. Let's get the fucking priorities straight.

Posted 4 months ago #
leftovers

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I think busing is 3% of commuters so 2% biking would be pretty good for a car centric place like Columbus.

Sadly, increased enforcement will probably come at the price of a few high profile accidents.

Posted 4 months ago #
cheap
Westgate
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lifeontwowheels said:

I'll be pretty blunt on this point: I will be pretty damn pissed if Columbus finds the money to sit a cop on a corner and hand out tickets for cyclists while my neighborhood continues to see vandalism, theft, arson, prostitution, drugs and murder. Let's get the fucking priorities straight.

if there were new bike laws,columbus cops wouldn't give a flying crap what somebody does on a bike,unless they land on the hood of their cruiser.

Posted 4 months ago #
M.O.
Columbus
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Sometime our brethren make us look bad.

Get the Video Plugins

Posted 4 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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M.O. said:
Sometime our brethren make us look bad.

And this proves...what? That you can find a video on the interets of a group of people being assholes? Looks like I can do the same thing:

Get the Video Plugins

Let's cut the bullshit, have a real conversation and end the tired double standard that judges cyclists, and cyclists alone, at such a high standard.

Posted 4 months ago #
M.O.
Columbus
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lifeontwowheels said:
And this proves...what? That you can find a video on the interets of a group of people being assholes? Looks like I can do the same thing.

Yes. Because I are a web wanker.

>>Let's cut the bullshit, have a real conversation and end the tired double standard that judges cyclists, and cyclists alone, at such a high standard.<<

OK. I are a cyclist. I put in 5k last year -- not a bunch, but committed. After 30+ years of serious cycling I've encountered clueless, rude motorists, but fewer and fewer as the years go by. I never trust that anybody is going to yield right of way, but I'm often surprised -- to the point I wave in gratitude when it's clear someone actually waited before pulling out from a side street. As Lance & co. have popularized the sport I see *more* clueless, rude cyclists on the road dressing up like sponsored Fruit Strip Gum and playing we-don't-stop-for-nobody, often in packs just like those TDF guys, but without the closed roadways.

It would be just swell if CPD clamped down on those folks. Seeing as a cyclist can't be pulled over for following the law, I don't see how we're holding anybody to a higher standard.

Posted 4 months ago #
mrpoppinzs
Arena District
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very well said and in a matter of fact, non-biased way to boot.

Posted 4 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Anecdote is anecdote. I see drivers every day at my work who treat each other with utter disrespect, often violating our posted traffic control signs to beat each other to the main road light. Does that invalidate someone else's claim to the opposite based on their observation and perception? Besides, there are 2 sides to every story. Maybe that pack of cyclists were riding legally (it is legal to ride two a breast in Ohio and it's the duty of the passing vehicle to pass safely. The vehicle in front, with right of way, has no legal obligation to move) and it's bias or ignorance that changes the perception.

CPD can certainly enforce existing laws and pull over bikes. I've sat and talked with several area officers about this and it's a low priority. Given the conditions of our urban areas that they are tasked with policing, is it a surprise that they peg it as such a low priority? It's the same with motor vehicles. Many minor infractions go unchecked at officer's discretion. What's the usual rant when someone get's a speeding ticket-that they should be off fighting "real" crime. Don't mistake me, I am all for enforcement of cyclists. This is just the wrong way to go about. Address the larger issues of simple ignorance or misunderstanding. It may not change the way the handful of assholes behave but it will change larger patterns of behavior.

The double standard I speak of is not in how police treat one v. the other. It's the way we demand full compliance by 100% of the cycling community and no where near apply that standard to other road users.

Posted 4 months ago #
M.O.
Columbus
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Just my perspective, but I don't see anyone calling for higher standards for cyclists here. I know CPD lets plenty slide. I see cruisers being tailgated by dimwits on the freeway all the time. (If it were me I'd pull right for them to pass ... and you know the rest). Walker's post just addresses a crackdown on rogue cyclists, and since rogue cyclists endanger all cyclists, I'm all for this.

(And as for the two-abreast riding, it's legal, but it ain't smart. A pack riding in this formation on busy roads survives not by the law, but by the grace of motorists).

Posted 4 months ago #
jungaroo
Italian Village
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I suspect there's a political dimension to what's happening in NYC. The city's transportation commissioner, Janette Sadik-Khan, has been very pro-bicycling. And this shows in the form of separate bike lines, separate traffic lights for bikes and other changes made to certain NYC streets. But she's also been criticized for being combative. And there are some folks, like Councilman Vacca, who are not happy about that. (Note: the article discusses his proposal, not measures proposed by the city in general.)

When I visited NYC back in June, I was taken aback by the aggressiveness and rudeness of several cyclists. Having grown up there (and visiting 2-3 times a year since I moved here), it was something I wasn't used to as a pedestrian - like Animal Farm and the pigs had taken over. As disappointing as this was, the idea of a crackdown is not the right solution.

I once heard the phrase "always be mindful of more vulnerable road users." It sounds pollyannish, but I think it's a message that needs to get out there. We're obsessed with right-of-ways and creating and enforcing laws, but how's that working out? When I walk to work, I don't really care if a cyclist uses a wide empty swath of High Street sidewalk as long as he keeps an eye out for pedestrians. But when a cyclist, let alone a car, is ready to speed up and mow me down because they technically have the right of way, that seems to defeat the original intention of the law.

Yeah, discretion can be a dangerous thing, but based on the difficulty of enforcing many of the traffic laws, we're already there anyway. How about changing the mindset?

Posted 4 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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lifeontwowheels said:
I'll be pretty blunt on this point: I will be pretty damn pissed if Columbus finds the money to sit a cop on a corner and hand out tickets for cyclists while my neighborhood continues to see vandalism, theft, arson, prostitution, drugs and murder. Let's get the fucking priorities straight.

It sounds like you're mixing up crime severity with police priorities. If safety enforcement and preventative measures (ie: vehicles running red lights) are at the bottom of of list with murder at the top, then you make it sound like anything other than murder prevention is a waste of time.

Sorry, but it sounds like you're stating a version of the "there are children starving in Africa" argument:

http://geo-geek.blogspot.com/2011/07/really-dont-use-this-argument.html

Posted 4 months ago #
cbus11

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M.O. said:
Sometime our brethren make us look bad.

Get the Video Plugins

holy crap

Posted 4 months ago #
alexs
Limestone bluffs of the Scioto
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If I'm in a crosswalk, with a walk sign, and I have to abruptly stop because a cyclist is taking my right of way, I'd likely extend my arm forward where the rest of my body would have been, and clothesline the fucker.

Posted 4 months ago #
DavidF
Elysium Fields
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alexs said:
If I'm in a crosswalk, with a walk sign, and I have to abruptly stop because a cyclist is taking my right of way, I'd likely extend my arm forward where the rest of my body would have been, and clothesline the fucker.

and just to make sure there isn't yet another rant about how unfair this attitude is, I've actually punched a dent into the hood of a car that tried to push me out of a crosswalk before. (Then I realized I was standing in front of large piece of steel on wheels that could crush me like an ant and boogied the hell out of there)

Posted 4 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Walker said: It sounds like you're mixing up crime severity with police priorities. If safety enforcement and preventative measures (ie: vehicles running red lights) are at the bottom of of list with murder at the top, then you make it sound like anything other than murder prevention is a waste of time. Sorry, but it sounds like you're stating a version of the "there are children starving in Africa" argument: http://geo-geek.blogspot.com/2011/07/really-dont-use-this-argument.html

I admit it's a bit lazy on my part but I did include a list of other crimes/issues that are real problems in our neighborhoods, are contributing to a lack of investment and are taxing the available resources. To suddenly deem cycling this great public menace and diverting resources to specifically target the bad behavior really doesn't do justice to our community. Especially when many of the issues surrounding cycling and the law aren't as black and white as simply "s/he is knowingly/blatantly breaking the law".

There are reasons why cyclists take the actions they do, which I touched in above. So I ask again, what does a targeted campaign of law enforcement against cyclists specifically do in the long term for our region? Does it actually solve the issue (current enforcement of all road users would tend to show that it doesn't)? Are the resources/time/energy better addressing the issue in a more positive, proactive way?

Part of the issue is that when driving, there is a uniform understanding and method of learning for how traffic operates and what the laws are. Licensing cyclists to achieve this is problematic because of the legal precedents surrounding cycling/pedestrians and the right to travel under your own power. So where we can more easily enforce driving behavior because of the established standards, cycling becomes a tricker situation. It's made even harder by the mixed signals of people like M.O: cyclists should always follow the traffic laws except when it inconveniences drivers.

Like I said there are no easy answers but there are a lot of things to look at. A "crackdown" is a little too simplistic to really get at what's going on.

[just so no one misquotes or takes me out of context: in no way do I attempt to rationalize or excuse problem behavior by cyclists. Cyclists have the duty to understand and know basic traffic laws and how to operate their vehicle on the road.]

Posted 4 months ago #
leftovers

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M.O. said:
OK. I are a cyclist. I put in 5k last year -- not a bunch, but committed. After 30+ years of serious cycling I've encountered clueless, rude motorists, but fewer and fewer as the years go by. I never trust that anybody is going to yield right of way, but I'm often surprised -- to the point I wave in gratitude when it's clear someone actually waited before pulling out from a side street. As Lance & co. have popularized the sport I see *more* clueless, rude cyclists on the road dressing up like sponsored Fruit Strip Gum and playing we-don't-stop-for-nobody, often in packs just like those TDF guys, but without the closed roadways.

It would be just swell if CPD clamped down on those folks. Seeing as a cyclist can't be pulled over for following the law, I don't see how we're holding anybody to a higher standard.

+1

Posted 4 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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lifeontwowheels said:
To suddenly deem cycling this great public menace and diverting resources to specifically target the bad behavior really doesn't do justice to our community.

Who said anything like that?

Posted 4 months ago #
Snarf
Dystopia
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lifeontwowheels said:
Enforcement can be a good thing but these crackdowns are pretty short sighted and only serve as a quick fix to score points for the politicians and to satisfy the entitlement mentality many drivers have, despite all legal and historical precedent to the contrary. Does enforcement really have much effect? Does it work now when we enforce traffic laws?

I'll keep saying it: education and culture change are the keys to changing behaviors of both cyclists and motorists to make the roads safer for everyone. It's not an easy road, it takes leadership and political courage and will be scoffed at by most.

Change the culture by changing the built environment. We have great intentions around cycling in our region-but how does that saying go? The road to hell being paved with those good intentions?

Change the design, make our standards higher. One poster commented here recently about their commute between German Village and Downtown and how their perception of safety led them to routinely go through red lights to get a jump and get to a safer speed. Which is better long term? Taking a cop off his beat to sit and write tickets at that light for cyclists? Or changing the built environment to include traffic signals specific to cyclists? Changing the built environment to be more conducive to life outside rush hour? It works well in world class bike cities which I believe we are claiming to be.

You know what else would work? Change our driver licensing procedures. How does this relate to cycling? Well, despite the stereotypes we often hear, many of those cyclists will have a drivers license. Include cycling to a greater degree on the license test and require the test to be retaken at a regular interval. Take the headlight law enacted a few years ago requiring you to turn on lights when wipers are in use. How often do we see this broken? Require drivers to know the laws; it'll trickle down to cyclists since most will be taking that test.

Publish cycling materials in other languages. How simple is this? Does MORPC offer the bike map in a language other than English? Is the map available at homeless shelters, food pantries and other service orgs? (According to their website, it appears to be no on both counts.)

We're having pretty good feedback on How We Roll at OSU. Education can definitely be made accessible and even desirable if done in the right way.

I'll be pretty blunt on this point: I will be pretty damn pissed if Columbus finds the money to sit a cop on a corner and hand out tickets for cyclists while my neighborhood continues to see vandalism, theft, arson, prostitution, drugs and murder. Let's get the fucking priorities straight.

Whoa there, TomOverontwowheels.

I don't see the crackdown as self serving to people onfourwheels. I imagine a lot of the issue in NYC is the threat to safety of pedestrians these reckless cyclists cause.

Let's hope rape doesn't see a spike bc cops are doing their jobs maintaining the publics safety by this, lol.

I do agree with you about the need for better driver education though. :)

Posted 4 months ago #