jbcmh81
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ricospaz said:
I liked City Center. Columbus screwed the pooch with that one. so much for downtown development
Too much competition, terrible layout, no street presence, etc. City Center was doomed from the start, and honestly, the park seems to be doing a better job of attracting new development Downtown than CC ever did.
dru
IV
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christylwilliams said:
I'm pretty sure that outdoor malls like Easton are still considered malls. I had assumed the no-new-malls-since-2006 statistic included those. But maybe not. The article doesn't cite specific sources.I wonder how much life Tuttle has left in it. When I worked in Dublin through 05-06 I would go to the Panera for lunch, and it always had more mall-walkers than mall-shoppers.
the 2006 stat used is from the linked article in the New York Times -
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/business/making-over-the-mall-in-rough-economic-times.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&sq=malls&st=cse&scp=2
"...A new enclosed mall has not opened in the United States since 2006, according to Professor Dunham-Jones, and many ambitious projects, like New Jersey’s Xanadu just west of Manhattan, have lain half-finished for years." (emphasis mine)
So it appears to be traditional malls. Of course this still leaves the question of it Lifestyle Centers with enclosed portions, like those at Easton, would qualify in the stat.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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ricospaz said:
I liked City Center.
I thought it was an ok mall. But unfortunately, we were in the minority, which meant fewer customers, fewer stores, and eventual closing. The City of Columbus couldn't have reversed that. A private developer is needed to renovate or rebuild, and it sounds like there were no takers for renovating that bunker.
stephentszuter
Downtown Columbus
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I'm glad City Center died. We don't need a suburban mall in the middle of the city. We need mixed use buildings to comprise a shopping center or district. I still wish some of the bigger names would start to move back downtown. I wouldn't be too opposed to seeing a Chicago Water Tower-type mall in Columbus, or even a Michigan Avenue-style shopping district. But since things are changing in Columbus, and things are moving back to the center, we have a lot of room to start from scratch.
Personally, I'm excited to hear that the last mall was built in 2006. It is proof of a trend reversal (although, how often are malls built?)
Porky
C-Bus' East Side
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This got me to wondering about the oldest malls in America and apparently one of the earliest was right here:
The early shopping center in the United States took shape at the Grandview Avenue Shopping Center (the "Bank Block") in Grandview Heights, Ohio in 1928, the first regional shopping center in America that integrated parking into the design. This general plan by Don Monroe Casto Sr. became the prototype of shopping centers for several decades.
James
Upper Arlington
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Porky said:
This got me to wondering about the oldest malls in America and apparently one of the earliest was right here:
The early shopping center in the United States took shape at the Grandview Avenue Shopping Center (the "Bank Block") in Grandview Heights, Ohio in 1928, the first regional shopping center in America that integrated parking into the design. This general plan by Don Monroe Casto Sr. became the prototype of shopping centers for several decades.
Even earlier than that, before cars & parking, was the Cleveland Arcade:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_arcade
And it's outlasted indoor malls built 100 years after it.
budser1228
Short North Area
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City Center wasn't allowed by the City of Columbus to get or give any information from a developer near the end.
I personally saw a developer's mixed use rendering of what City Center could be turned into but Simon Property Group told the developer that it could not talk to him per the City of Columbus (this was back in 2007-08). I don't have the specifics of why Simon wasn't allowed to speak with developers - whether it was the lawsuit by the City against Simon about how they neglected the property, the fact that they leased the land from the City, or if was from a bankruptcy with the City of Columbus being a creditor. Whatever it was, the City then made an agreement with Simon and bought/took control of City Center.
So, it wasn't that no one saw the potential, it was that it was too late and the City took control and decided to do what they wanted to do.
christylwilliams
Olde Towne East
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Walker said:
Average life expectancy of a traditional mall is maybe 20-25 years sans major renovations.
Talk about planned obsolescence.
I agree with the original article that just bulldozing these old malls seems like a big waste of valuable infrastructure.
I miss City Center a lot. With some renovation and re-purposing, it really could've been a kick ass mixed-use development. Like its own little neighborhood in the heart of the city.
mrpoppinzs
Arena District
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It would have been really cool to have some large scale retail downtown like when City Center was doing well. By the time I got to the AD it was pretty vacant and they were about to tear it down. I still hope that some larger retailers eventually make it back down there. I imagine it would have been pretty great to walk to that much retail downtown.
This was a Meleca architectural proposal for a revamp:
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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christylwilliams said:
I miss City Center a lot. With some renovation and re-purposing, it really could've been a kick ass mixed-use development. Like its own little neighborhood in the heart of the city.
I agree!
http://www.walkerevanseffect.com/blog/my-city-center-wishlist-a-12-step-program-for-recovery/
Unfortunately, no one with money was interested at the time.
I think the park is an adequate temporary use for the space, and eventually we might get that dense mixed-use infill...
mrpoppinzs
Arena District
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I think that would have been great.
Walker said:
http://www.walkerevanseffect.com/blog/my-city-center-wishlist-a-12-step-program-for-recovery/
stephentszuter
Downtown Columbus
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Walker said:
I agree!http://www.walkerevanseffect.com/blog/my-city-center-wishlist-a-12-step-program-for-recovery/
Unfortunately, no one with money was interested at the time.
I think the park is an adequate temporary use for the space, and eventually we might get that dense mixed-use infill...
Well that just looks like super mega fun times.
Pickerington_Kyle
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Patch
Schumacher Place
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Anne said:
I just got this email and I guess Kenwood Towne Center in Cincinnati is still adding stores. I have not been down that way in awhile, do they still have that mess of rusted steel for the large building that got tangled up in legal issues? [/img]
Yes, yes it its a still big chunk of rusted metal.
luketenley
Orlando, FL
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Anyone ever noticed that in the malls that were built in the 60s and 70s that had huge fountains, the fountains have been removed for open, boring space? I love water features in malls. They are relaxing.
Gil Ligg
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Walker, your plan for City Center was pretty good, too bad no one cared for it.
So they spent $20 million to demolish the City Center and put a mediocre park in its place instead of renovate it into an awesome mixed-use building? Wow, that sounds like some great city planning and some great leadership. Not.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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Gil Ligg said:
So they spent $20 million to demolish the City Center and put a mediocre park in its place instead of renovate it into an awesome mixed-use building? Wow, that sounds like some great city planning and some great leadership. Not.
Many other cities would have let the corporate mall owner to have the property sit vacant. Do a google search for "empty Downtown mall" and you can find many cities struggling to figure out what to do with similar situations. Close to home, there's the Dayton Arcade has been closed to the public since 1990 (22 years!). It's a beautiful building that I hope never gets torn down, but it's an embarrassing eyesore to have it just sitting there completely unused. Without the intervention of city leaders, the City Center Mall would most likely be sitting there boarded up today and for many more years to come. And it's was a much uglier structure than the Dayton Arcade.
While much of Columbus Commons is flat tree-less grass, it was built that way because the longer-term plan was to allow development in certain places when the private market was ready to support it:
http://admin.columbuscommons.org/uploads/files/FutureColumbusCommonsDevelopmentMap.pdf
Meanwhile, the portions of the park that are permanent (the carousel area, food vendors, planted walkways, stage area, etc are all actually pretty nice IMHO. And the event programming for The Commons is top notch, ranging from outdoor theatre to classical music to rock concerts to food truck festivals to yoga classes and more. The park is incredibly well used.
And I'd say its a positive sign of success that the longer-term plans for redevelopment of the site have been able to move forward more quickly. City leaders projected 10 years before any private development would be constructed on site and we've already got new seven-story mixed-use buildings under construction there with another one coming soon right across the street. More retail development has been spurred surrounding the park as well including MoJoe, deNOVO, Manifesto, etc.
While I still feel it's a shame to have not been able to reuse the old building, the new plan is working out better (and faster) than what a lot of cities have been able to do.
Patch
Schumacher Place
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Walker said:
While much of Columbus Commons is flat tree-less grass, it was built that way because the longer-term plan was to allow development in certain places when the private market was ready to support it:
http://admin.columbuscommons.org/uploads/files/FutureColumbusCommonsDevelopmentMap.pdf
When are the bocce courts going in?
murfmurphy
Westgate
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