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No More Free COTA Rides with Expired BuckIDs

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Started 8 months ago by News
Latest reply from Walker

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lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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cc said:
I really dislike the idea of 'fareless' as it just disassociates the paying for services rendered. COTA is very highly subsidized. If they want to play with their system so that shorter trips cost less then I would be for that. I think paying for services at the time of use keeps expectations at a certain level and would keep COTA evolving from its current mediocre system.

I will say it until I am blue in the face. The lack of some type of prepaid fare card is PATHETIC. This is the 15th largest city in the nation. There are plenty of potential clients who would take the bus and pay for it. COTA can earn its ridership and I think making it easy to take clients' money is business 101.

+ 1

I hope to be car free again some day and don't plan on using the bus much but I still want it to be an option. My choices are to buy the $55+ month pass and potentially not use it to it's full value or buy a stack of $3 day passes.

Posted 8 months ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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michaelcoyote said:
Seems like that's just not there yet. Soon I'm sure, but I don't see the average COTA user having a smartphone or even a new style debit/credit card. It would be good if anything COTA would buy would be forward compatible, but I don't see it being there for years.

I think it's closer than you think. My Chase Visa has "Blink" built in and my PNC bank account debit card has Visa "PayWave." It would be as simiple as tapping these to the turnstile, just like an Oyester, Clipper, or Chicago Card.

The issue will be people that don't have credit or debit cards (because they have no bank account and no money). This is probably many of COTA's customers. However, they could continue to pay with cash. Or COTA could work with a bank or credit card company to issue transit-only debit account cards to this group of people.

There are issues to work out, but I think it's doable. Perhaps I'm over-simplifying, but I think we'll see several large transit agencies doing this in the next few years.

I'd like to see a fareless downtown. Maybe starting at Buttles in the north, Parsons in the east, Starling in the west and Livingston in the south. Thoughts?

I like this idea to encourage short trips around downtown by transit. We don't need people driving from their office to lunch just because it's a half-mile away. I would suggest that the I-670/I-71/I-70/Scioto River might be a good logical boundary.

Posted 8 months ago #
michaelcoyote
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johnwirtz said:
I think it's closer than you think. My Chase Visa has "Blink" built in and my PNC bank account debit card has Visa "PayWave." It would be as simiple as tapping these to the turnstile, just like an Oyester, Clipper, or Chicago Card.

I don't buy it. So I'm going to have to wait until 2014 until my cards run out to see if I get PayWave? I'm guessing I'm not alone.

From what I can tell they all use RFID. I say go ahead and support PayWave and have a transit card available.

The issue will be people that don't have credit or debit cards (because they have no bank account and no money). This is probably many of COTA's customers. However, they could continue to pay with cash. Or COTA could work with a bank or credit card company to issue transit-only debit account cards to this group of people.

There are issues to work out, but I think it's doable. Perhaps I'm over-simplifying, but I think we'll see several large transit agencies doing this in the next few years.

I'm thinking it will be at least 5+ years before we see wide-scale deployment.

Not to mention the security implications of RFID payment systems are still in flux. For now I like having my risk limited to the balance of my clipper card.

Of course this is moot because it will probably be 20+ years before anything gets done on COTA.

I like this idea to encourage short trips around downtown by transit. We don't need people driving from their office to lunch just because it's a half-mile away. I would suggest that the I-670/I-71/I-70/Scioto River might be a good logical boundary.

I like extending the boundary into the adjacent shopping districts a bit, especially into the SN. This would get people to different restaurants for lunch during the day and take visitors into the prime restaurant and shopping area for dinner.

Posted 8 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Someone more up to date on the technology can chime in but paying via Visa/MC/AMEX etc. with Pay Wave or other means of wireless kind of scares me. I'm just imaging the due 3 rows down with his android/iphone trolling the buses all day collecting info.

The issue of have/have not with debit/credit seems like it could be solved with a simple, re-loadable plastic fare card. Create an app to charge the card off smart phone with Paypal or the like or from a home computer. And for a broader audience, the grocery stores all pretty much sell fare cards at the moment. All pretty much sell re-loadable gift cards to area retailers: seems like the ability is already there for anyone to simply, easily use and add value as needed.

Posted 8 months ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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The technology is already widespread, but it could be a few years before you see it on transit outside of major cities like London, NYC, and Chicago.

I don't think CU is a representative sample of transit riders in Columbus, but I'd be interested to hear anecdotal evidence of how widespread the "contactless payment technology" already is. Check your credit cards for this symbol.

If you have that, then you have "contactless payment technology" It can be used anywhere you see that symbol. I notice it at a lot of drug stores and fast food places now. Chase has a list of 50 locations within 10 miles of downtown Columbus:
http://www.chaseblink.com/where-to-blink.asp

Posted 8 months ago #
michaelcoyote
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None here.

I'm actually more interested in chip & pin cards so I don't catch a ration of crap when I try to use my cards abroad. Then again, that's more secure, so I'm cool with that.

Posted 8 months ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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CTA announces open fare system to come in 2014

Soon you’ll be able to pay for a trip on Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) buses and trains with your credit/debit card (provided it has an embedded wireless chip) and NFC-enabled cellphones. Currently all four credit card processors (Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover) offer cards with contactless chips – they use RFID technology. The Samsung Nexus S is the only widely available cellphone with an NFC chip. This is all part of an upcoming system called Open Fare.

READ MORE

Posted 6 months ago #
Cole
Hilltop
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I attended the COTA service change meeting on Tuesday and I found out that they are going to offer a 1-trip ticket and a 2-trip ticket. It's not quite as robust as what most people would want for a multi-pass, but it's better than having to pay a premium on the day pass. Not that this announcement is solicited, but you can read my blog post here: http://bikingcolumbus.blogspot.com/2011/12/cota-public-meeting.html

Posted 5 months ago #
Polis

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COTA has already said they will not be moving to a smart card debit system, the start up costs are just too great. There needs to be a financial institution backing the cards, which is very expensive right now. I think moving towards a smart card system that only tracks how many rides you have, like the 2-trip ticket, would be much better. Especially, if it is refillable online.

Although, I guess you would still have to toss in change for an express trip unless express cards were also offered, but then you need to have two card types!

Posted 5 months ago #
JoeMitchell

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Walker said:
An interesting take on the topic at XING:

Concept: Expanding the BuckID COTA fee model

Why not get rid of fares (or maybe just most fares) and add a small fee to every household’s property tax bill? The 2005-2009 American Community Survey showed 453,580 households in Franklin County. Again, the annual fare revenue collected by COTA was $13,817,908. To balance the current revenue, those households would need to pay $30.46 per year on average. That’s pretty small compared to a typical property tax bill of several thousand dollars. It’s even small compared to the cost of a monthly pass. But now everyone in the service area can ride the bus as much as they want without the hassle of buying tickets, monthly passes, or having exact change.

MORE: http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/concept-expanding-the-buckid-cota-fee-model/

way late to the discussion but at first glance this appears to be a fantastic idea

would think free people moving equals increased commerce

would think free people moving makes columbus cool

then take a look at the cota numbers

they could probably make this change without any increased revenues and just be forced to chase the improvement money

2008 non fare revenue 95.2 less op exp 78.3 = $16.9m prior to depr
2009 non fare 90.6 less op exp 81.3 = $9.3m prior
2010 non fare 95.5 less op exp 87.3 = $8.2m prior

side note 2010 labor and burden have increased over $10m 20% since 2008, have routes expanded at that same rate?

this is quick and dirty and ignorant however the idea warrants serious consideration

Posted 5 months ago #
JoeMitchell

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_public_transport

hows this for a slogan, columbus the largest city in the world with free public transportation

Posted 5 months ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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JoeMitchell said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_public_transport

hows this for a slogan, columbus the largest city in the world with free public transportation

Even though this was my idea, I do worry about two things associated with no fare transit in a large city:
1. Peak services may become too crowded. The peak periods are the hardest for transit agencies to serve. They have to keep extra buses and run extra service that may only be needed for short durations. Perhaps peak-hour only or express only fares can help to ration service at high demand times.
2. Trouble-makers who wouldn't ordinarily ride the bus may find it convenient to do so in order to make trouble. Drivers can ask people to leave a bus and call the police if necessary, but I'm sure they would rather not have to deal with it. Perhaps security cameras could help mitigate this issue?

Posted 5 months ago #
Analogue Kid
5th by West-Northwest
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johnwirtz said:
2. Trouble-makers who wouldn't ordinarily ride the bus may find it convenient to do so in order to make trouble. Drivers can ask people to leave a bus and call the police if necessary, but I'm sure they would rather not have to deal with it. Perhaps security cameras could help mitigate this issue?

All COTA buses already have security cameras. Although most routes are peaceful, there are still occasional troublemakers even with them installed. It is incredibly difficult for drivers to properly deal with disruptive passengers now, and inviting more on wouldn't help the situation.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2009/11/19/shooting-on-COTA-bus.html

Posted 5 months ago #
Corrin Radd

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So how's the swiping going? Is it slowing down the buses? Any glitches? Etc?

Posted 3 months ago #
CMH2579

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All is well now. There was an unofficial grace period until Feb 1st so that those who had BuckID problems could still ride.

Posted 3 months ago #
Analogue Kid
5th by West-Northwest
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Corrin Radd said:
So how's the swiping going? Is it slowing down the buses? Any glitches? Etc?

I was told by a veteran driver that the 31-day pass shouldn't be swiped through the read on top but rather put in the transfer reader, but I don't know why. This takes longer to read and has noticeably slowed boarding leaving downtown.

Posted 3 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Analogue Kid said:
I was told by a veteran driver that the 31-day pass shouldn't be swiped through the read on top but rather put in the transfer reader, but I don't know why. This takes longer to read and has noticeably slowed boarding leaving downtown.

I think there's some training kinks to work out with the new 31-day passes. They go in the transfer reader the *first* time only and are activated and receive a set of date stamps showing the activation and expiration dates.

After that, they get swiped like the old monthly passes.

Posted 3 months ago #