New outerbelt would solve growth problem « Columbus Underground Messageboard

Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion

New outerbelt would solve growth problem

[223 posts] [42 contributors]

Topic Rating:

(Total Ratings: )
Rate this topic:

Started 6 years ago by Walker
Latest reply from News

Tags:

« Previous 1…101112 Next »

bman
New Albany
Login to Send PM

Walker said:
I can certainly appreciate that, though I think your approach is sometimes lacking. ;) Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion as long as the discussion can remain civil.

In related news, what's up with all of the violence in New Albany in the past two days? I thought this kind of stuff didn't happen in the burbs. ;)

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/01/24/new-albany-officer-arrested.html

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/25/driver-shot-new-albany-road-rage-incident-ar-910202/

LOL ... got me! I will still take our crime ANY day over the crime in the urban core. I don't worry about drive by shootings at my house, or people breaking into my garage, strangers mugging me, leaving my laptop in my suv in my garage. Everyone ... EVERONE knows crime is less in NA than WP, KLD, SN, VV, etc ... Let's not argue about blatantly obvious stuff.

Posted 4 months ago #
tourist19
Merion Village
Login to Send PM

bman said:
LOL ... got me! I will still take our crime ANY day over the crime in the urban core. I don't worry about drive by shootings at my house, or people breaking into my garage, strangers mugging me, leaving my laptop in my suv in my garage. Everyone ... EVERONE knows crime is less in NA than WP, KLD, SN, VV, etc ... Let's not argue about blatantly obvious stuff.

Wow. I live in Merion Village and I do not worry about drive by shootings or strangers mugging me. Yes, people may try to break into my garage and steal shit from my car, however I consider those crimes to be NO WHERE on par with muggings or shootings. Way to make broad generalizations, oh wait that seems to be your thing. Nevermind. By the way, all those "awesome" things you listed as having in the suburbs, I have them right here. Except for the schools, you got me there, but as I am child-free by choice, don't really care about that one.

Posted 4 months ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

Login to Send PM

Isn't the United State have the largest Propane and natural Gas reserves? Why don't we have car's that run on that? To expensive?

Posted 4 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
Login to Send PM

bman said:
LOL ... got me! I will still take our crime ANY day over the crime in the urban core. I don't worry about drive by shootings at my house, or people breaking into my garage, strangers mugging me, leaving my laptop in my suv in my garage. Everyone ... EVERONE knows crime is less in NA than WP, KLD, SN, VV, etc ... Let's not argue about blatantly obvious stuff.

Well your original statement was never about more vs. less. It was about NO crime in your city, which has been proven (twice) to be absolutely false.

Again, I live in one of the higher crime areas. I've had no issues to date, take reasonable precautions I would take regardless of the neighborhood and live without fear. But please, keep dazzling us with your ignorance.

Posted 4 months ago #
bman
New Albany
Login to Send PM

tourist19 said:
Wow. I live in Merion Village and I do not worry about drive by shootings or strangers mugging me. Yes, people may try to break into my garage and steal shit from my car, however I consider those crimes to be NO WHERE on par with muggings or shootings. Way to make broad generalizations, oh wait that seems to be your thing. Nevermind. By the way, all those "awesome" things you listed as having in the suburbs, I have them right here. Except for the schools, you got me there, but as I am child-free by choice, don't really care about that one.

Hmmm ... just googled the crime statistics for Merion Village zip code and found that you are overall crime risk is 135% of the national average, the murder risk is 142% of the national average and property crime risk is 146% of the national average.

If you feel comfortable with those statistics that is great ... no beef from me, but I would not live there.

Posted 4 months ago #
bman
New Albany
Login to Send PM

lifeontwowheels said:
Well your original statement was never about more vs. less. It was about NO crime in your city, which has been proven (twice) to be absolutely false.

Again, I live in one of the higher crime areas. I've had no issues to date, take reasonable precautions I would take regardless of the neighborhood and live without fear. But please, keep dazzling us with your ignorance.

LOL ... come on, playing an idiot doesn't work for you. There is NO one that can make the case the crime is no different in the urban core than in New Albany. You are laughable! YOu probably should have deleted your account.

Posted 4 months ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
Login to Send PM

bman unlike many on here who want to see the suburban infrastructure crumble and decline so that the urban center gains. Won't happen ... too much wealth resides in the suburbs like someone previously stated.

This is where I totally don't agree. The areas which are currently doing better are regions which don't see a zero sum game. I don't see that either. We rise and fall regionally and a resilient region requires diversity. It is true that municipal political boundaries create rivalries. Sadly, those only serve to benefit the professional politicians.

Wealth is a very relative value. Once OTE and other areas were repositories of wealth that would have seemed unassailable. Now, no. Municipalities like Westerville were doing pretty well ... until they weren't. Some of it is increased transportation costs that devalue across the board, but there are other issues. The municipalities were buffered from the budget crises by the infusion of state and federal (stimulus) funds. Those have gone and aren't coming back. The next four years are going to be a very interesting story for both municipalities and for the unincorporated areas.

A.

Posted 4 months ago #
rus

Login to Send PM

Pickerington_Kyle said:
Isn't the United State have the largest Propane and natural Gas reserves? Why don't we have car's that run on that? To expensive?

Different infrastructure inhibits adoption. Can make sense for fleet vehicles in some cases, though.

Posted 4 months ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

Login to Send PM

rus said:
Different infrastructure inhibits adoption. Can make sense for fleet vehicles in some cases, though.

have buses run on natural gas 2020?

Posted 4 months ago #
rus

Login to Send PM

Pickerington_Kyle said:
have buses run on natural gas 2020?

COTA has talked about it.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/11/13/cota-switching-to-buses-that-run-on-natural-gas.html

Posted 4 months ago #
gramarye
In Exile
Login to Send PM

Andrew Hall said:
Damn. I am massively annoyed. Getting blitzed at my (walking) local bar and miss the chance to post only to discover that Gram has it pretty much nailed it (again.)

Well done, sir, well done.

A.

The obvious solution is to take me to said local bar and get me even more blitzed, so you sober up first and can get to CU first next time. 8-)

Posted 4 months ago #
Mercurius
First Avenue
Login to Send PM

Mercurius said:
It does seem to me that there is an exurban culture and an urban culture and the two are becoming ever more segregated. These cultures have nothing to do with ethnicity--but rather philosophy and politics, or even a world view. Generally, urban cultures embrace, "creativity, novelty and excitement," where these are eschewed by the outer-ring suburban in favor of the virtue of par.

What's more, with ever more fragmented entertainment and news, each culture is caught in a reinforcing feedback loop and further diverging (e.g. Columbus Underground.) Why don't I see exuburbs as great egalitarian meccas where everyone can achieve par--just by following simple rules? To me, they seem so boring and contrived; built for planned obsolescence.

I'm a product of the outer-ring suburbs; but where I grew up was a historic district built to support a farming community--well built for livability. Now much of that historic district has gone out of business and through my life, a bedroom community of ticky-tacky and strip malls have risen in its place. There is actually an ordinance that requires all new commercial buildings to be covered in faux brick. It's not the suburb that I hate--it's the lack of quality and the lack of creativity. Luckily, I seldom have to visit them and do my best to keep that mindset from encroaching on what I see as my oasis--but understand why they work.

I recently had to take a management class where we took a (not very scientific) personality profile called True Colors. It occurred to me that all the reasons I don't like 'gold personalities' are the same reasons I don't like the suburbs. A gold personality values rules, routines, order, security, duty and procedure above all else. Bman--I have a feeling that while because of your sexual orientation, you don't exactly fit this profile--but do so more than anything else?

I believe I see what people in the suburbs want and why the suburbs are a good fit for them. I would be much more accepting of their existence if there was more of an emphasis for them to be economically and environmentally sustainable--and not in some distant future.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/30/communities-learn-the-good-life-can-be-a-killer/

Posted 3 months ago #
cheap
Westgate
Login to Send PM

Mercurius said:
There is actually an ordinance that requires all new commercial buildings to be covered in faux brick. It's not the suburb that I hate--it's the lack of quality and the lack of creativity.

dont german village and other urban areas have design restrictions?

Posted 3 months ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

Login to Send PM

It was mentioned earlier, that no city has a double outerbelt, but Louisville has almost 2 go completely around it. I-264 and I-265.

Posted 3 months ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
Login to Send PM

I don't endorse this article completely, but it is a good look at another side of transportation debates.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/02/21/fixing-americas-freeways

A.

Posted 3 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
Login to Send PM

Andrew Hall said:
I don't endorse this article completely, but it is a good look at another side of transportation debates.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/02/21/fixing-americas-freeways

A.

From the article:

Road construction receives a low priority in modern America, in favor of expanding mass transit and encouraging “active transportation” (biking and walking) by building more sidewalks and networks of bike lanes.

Seriously?

Posted 3 months ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
Login to Send PM

Walker said:
From the article:

Road construction receives a low priority in modern America, in favor of expanding mass transit and encouraging “active transportation” (biking and walking) by building more sidewalks and networks of bike lanes.

Seriously?

Hence the caveat. I started to write a comment on the article quoting that and how he gets backwards in that urban areas actually subsidize rural in many states. I decided I couldn't be bothered.

The article is useful for having some very clear examples of road-centered solutions to problems in areas. And regardless of one's desired outcomes, it highlights the very problematic nature of transit funding.

A.

Posted 3 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
Login to Send PM

Yeah, there are certainly a few nuggets of good info in there, but he threw me into a state of heavy skepticism early on with a flat out false statement like that one.

I also thought this was interesting:

The Texas Transportation Institute (TTI), which has been measuring the cost of traffic congestion in wasted time and fuel for three decades, estimates that in current dollars the traffic penalty rose from $24 billion in 1982 to $115 billion in 2009 (the latest year for which complete data are available). The average urban commuter wastes 34 hours a year in rush-hour congestion today, compared with just 14 hours in 1982.

I'd argue that the dollars lost in productivity has more to do with land-use development patterns and the choices that Americans have made to intentionally live further from work, and less to do to highway capacities themselves. Further, adding new highway capacity is more likely to enable more sprawl, thus continuing the cycle and making those lost dollar figures rise even higher.

Posted 3 months ago #
shannalafontaine
Dublin
Login to Send PM

honavery said:
Are there other cities that have 2 outer belts? It just seems a bit much, especially considering Columbus isn't THAT big.

Not that we want to compete with Beijing, but they have a 5 "ring" system.

Posted 3 months ago #
shannalafontaine
Dublin
Login to Send PM

Walker said:
I think an outer-outerbelt may eventually become a necessity for our sprawling city, it's not going to be an end-all solution for these growth problems and may actually cause more new problems than it would fix. Many of the outer-lying areas that are hot growth spots will eventually need faster transportation between them and driving inward to 270 and back outward to these areas will only cause more 270 congestion.
Anyone else care to share some thoughts on an outer-outerbelt?

I think flying cars would be a better solution. :) Seriously though, something is needed, but I'm not sure what the answer is, I often daydream about freeway bridges over areas like 23/315/71 up in the N. area when I just want to drive and not worry about all the stop and go and people turning.

Posted 3 months ago #