kit444
Elsewhere
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So after 28 pages of "discussion", we've established:
1) The developers of Park51 have a right to build on their private property and to practice their religion.
2) Other people have a right to be pissed off about it.
Both of those statements are axiomatic to me. I don't know what there is to debate. Does anyone disagree with either of those statements? Can we just put a church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on the site and avoid all this nonsense?
michaelcoyote
!seabus
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gramarye
In Exile
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kit444 wrote >>
So after 28 pages of "discussion", we've established:
1) The developers of Park51 have a right to build on their private property and to practice their religion.
2) Other people have a right to be pissed off about it.
Both of those statements are axiomatic to me. I don't know what there is to debate. Does anyone disagree with either of those statements? Can we just put a church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster on the site and avoid all this nonsense?
I'd be OK with an FSM church on the site. Not sure that the Cordoba folks would be as cool with it. Plus, the FSM church doesn't have the financial backing of a giant petrocracy.
More seriously, I think we all agree with your two statements. It's the proper response to those two foundational statements that's the issue.
michaelcoyote
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rus
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rus
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JonMyers wrote >>
http://worshipbacon.com
OK, THAT I'd like to see near ground zero.
gramarye
In Exile
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rus wrote >>
JonMyers wrote >>
http://worshipbacon.comOK, THAT I'd like to see near ground zero.
Meh. There'd still be some 9/11 Truthers claiming that the Jews were behind the Church of Bacon.
(Which, come to think of it, would add further to the lulz ...)
gramarye
In Exile
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This post is long (and comes late in a very long thread), but for people looking for a critique of the proposed Park51 project that I think breaks down the issues very well, this post on the Volokh Conspiracy sets the critique out as well as I've seen it done:
http://volokh.com/2010/08/31/three-issues-in-the-debate-over-the-ground-zero-mosque/
Core_Models
Columbus
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After reading that, I can't think of anyone who should be more offended than Jews after a comparison of 9/11 to the Holocaust.
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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michaelcoyote wrote >>
Tenzo wrote >>
Snarf wrote >>
Can the church of the flying spaghetti monster be tax exempt also?Yes, and the forms take about 3 hours to file.
Shit man, I want in on that action.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1023.pdf
If you have regular services and at least three people not related to you attending, you may declare your site a church and exempt from property taxes.
If you have the church of bacon, I'll join.
JonMyers
Ao Nang, Krabi, Thailand
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From the TriBeca Tribune:
Lower Manhattan Left Out As Debate Rages Over Park Pl. Mosque
With the controversy over a 13-story Islamic community center and mosque on Park Place monopolizing 24-hour news networks, editorial pages and campaign speeches, it is easy to forget that the “Ground Zero Mosque,†as it is often mislabeled, began as a local issue.
Since May 5, when the project first was introduced to a committee of Community Board 1â€â€winning applause from board members before soon provoking protests far beyond Lower Manhattanâ€â€the views of those who live and work closest to the site have been largely overlooked.
And for the most part, those views strike a very different tone from the growing national backlash against the project’s construction.
“How many people do you talk to in this neighborhood who have such extreme views about the mosque?†said Irene Widjaja, a Financial District resident and mother of a second grader at P.S. 234.
Widjaja was on her way to the Equinox gym on Murray Street late last month, within earshot of the shouts from anti-mosque protesters on West Broadway. “I don’t think there are many,†she added. “And we are the people who lived the experience of 9/11.â€Â
Most local elected officials have defended the project, called Park51. Community Board 1, supposedly a barometer of its Downtown constituents’ opinions, voted overwhelmingly in its favorâ€â€twice.
At a July CB1 meeting packed with opponents of the project, State Sen. Daniel Squadron, who represents Lower Manhattan, was pressed by the crowd for his opinion of the proposal, put forth by the Cordoba Initiative. They did not like what they heard.
“Especially in Lower Manhattan, we’re welcoming, we are diverse,†Squadron said to a round of heckling and boos. “There should be no areas that don’t accept religions or cultures anywhere in this country, and certainly not here.â€Â
In interviews with people who live and work within a block of the proposed center, most said they did not object to the plan. If there are concerns, they said, it is not with a Muslim center being located in their neighborhood or near the World Trade Center site.
“I definitely support the mosque,†said Ben Borromeo, a resident at 53 Park Place, which abuts the Park51 site to the west. “My thing is that there’s been so much construction down here, another 13-story building isn’t going to help. It’s a lot to deal with, but I know something’s got to go in there.â€Â
Jake Ray, also of 53 Park Place, fears something far worse. “Ideologically, I’m absolutely behind the idea of building the mosque,†he said. But Ray added that he pictures “some guy in the backwoods of America who’s against this thing, packing a moving van full of fertilizer.â€Â
“Being that I live next door,†Ray said, “I’m a little nervous about what might happen.â€Â
More:
Lower Manhattanites Are Outsiders in Mosque Controversy
jammyave
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So now it isn't new yorkers it isn't manhattanites, its only downtown manhattanites who have a saywow. That is like only those in Columbus who live in the arena district having a say on the casino. Also bridge and tunnel is only a diss if you are trying to fit in with someone, which I could five a shot about. My family grew up bridge and tunnel but some live in ues now some still live in queens and some live out so far in suffolk that they go to polo matches for fun.
Coy
Discovery District
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jammyave wrote >>
So now it isn't new yorkers it isn't manhattanites, its only downtown manhattanites who have a saywow. That is like only those in Columbus who live in the arena district having a say on the casino. Also bridge and tunnel is only a diss if you are trying to fit in with someone, which I could five a shot about. My family grew up bridge and tunnel but some live in ues now some still live in queens and some live out so far in suffolk that they go to polo matches for fun.
You mean its "only" the people who actually live there, and have elected officials to make these kinds of decisions on development for them? You mean "only" the same people that lived through 911 in their backyard and seem fine with an Islamic Community Center in there neighborhood? Then yes. Exactly.
Welcome to America.
BTW, there also isn't anything in the Constitution about freedom to play Blackjack... there is a little something on religion though, you might want to check it out...
Core_Models
Columbus
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