HeySquare
German Village
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So... I know light rail has been shot down. Trollys are under hot discussion, but they only travel at the speed of the traffic. Has anyone ever heard if monorail was ever considered for Columbus?
Possibly utitize existing rail right of way and turn lanes in streets to construct the monorail lanes...
Any thoughts?
ZHC
101 East Main Street, Downtown
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I like the concept map (it's not to scale is it?). neat stuff.
couple thoughts
has the monorail ever been successfully implemented anywhere in the US? my understanding is that Seattle just scrapped their plans for one...
Also there probably ought to be a east- west route in the north end there. A trip from Worthington to Powell (e.g.) would take really a long time under the current plan
th0m
Beechwold
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monorail_systems
I've been on the Disney World system, the People Mover in Detroit... and there used to be a mall and hotel in the suburbs of Detroit that used to have a circular track just between the two places. To be honest, I sort of thought they were somewhat hokey, but looks like they've taken off...
Here's one Norfolk, VA is building:
... Oh! No that thing isn't to scale.
th0m
Beechwold
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ZHC
101 East Main Street, Downtown
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th0m wrote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monorail_systemsI've been on the Disney World system, the People Mover in Detroit... and there used to be a mall and hotel in the suburbs of Detroit that used to have a circular track just between the two places. To be honest, I sort of thought they were somewhat hokey, but looks like they've taken off...
Here's one Norfolk, VA is building:
yeah that was what I was driving at, from what your link suggest there is no city wide monorail system in existence in the US. I've ridden the Disney monorail as well and I liked it a lot actually. I don't know if it's cost or logistic concerns specifically but there seems to be some major hurdle in the US to installing monorail. Monorails aren't exactly *new* tech anymore so I don't agree that they've taken off. Worth considering to be sure, but probably not our best option right now.
th0m
Beechwold
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I think my dad hit it on the nail that the futurism of the Disney system was that it made you imagine maybe it really was levitating (its on wheels, more like a coaster)... and well, we do have maglev technology now...
But you're right, though, I mean, it *is* crazy idea, or is that why we're still thinking about it?
th0m
Beechwold
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this didn't take long heheh...
this is actually the las vegas monorail ... http://www.lvmonorail.com/
i also used http://vectormagic.stanford.edu
HeySquare
German Village
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th0m wrote this didn't take long heheh...
this is actually the las vegas monorail ... http://www.lvmonorail.com/
i also used http://vectormagic.stanford.edu
Apparently the Vegas monorail has issues, and major cost overruns (hmm, it is Vegas... wonder who's uncle vinny got the contract to build that monster.... anyway...) From what I've seen, there really aren't many places that have implements monorail as a system... it's been this isolated project, and unless it's integrated into a city-wide system, that's not going to be successful. I was thinking about the use of the existing rail lines for mass transit, but the major problem with that is that they don't connect to Columbus attractions in a way that would make them user-friendly. Mass transit NEEDS to stop on campus, and near the stadium. NOTHING would get people using a mass transit system more than the promise of free parking and easy transit to a Buckeye game. The rail corridors don't get close enough.
Japan has a number of monorail systems, and they seem to have been pretty successful.
I just was really wondering if it had ever been studied for Columbus. Wouldn't it be cool to see a train like this gliding along the banks of the river, pulling into Ohio State... seeing the city from the view along the river? I can really vision that.
th0m
Beechwold
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Well, I think there are some things:
1. Funding
That's really it... and compared to the simple 1 track initial thing COTA had scoped out (which I'm sure the study in itself cost a good amount), a lot of other options are pricey. The thinking is to start off with something small, with the option to later expand it, but I think you're right, something like that causes stagnation in the interest of the project perhaps.
But there could be some really interesting things, like a government entity of some kind promoting it as a green issue, or what about The Nationwide Maglev or some other big corporate sponsor (like the casinos funding theirs in Vegas)... would OSU build one through downtown and then out to the airport, and up to their own airport?
2. Engineering
Probably less important than #1, but still a major factor... with light rail, we have the tracks, with street cars you're maybe leveraging a lot of the existing infrastructure... I always thought use the elevated highways as a bases for a maglev or something, but really all of these kinds of pie-in-the-sky ideas are wide in scope and radically different.
So, there are some things that could make this possible:
1. Ever increasing fascism about global warming would mandate a greater need for efficiency, or open a market for Columbus to earn money by "offsetting" other community's carbon emissions, or otherwise some other kind of major green-is-the-new-black economy shift (2 years?)
2. Some kind of engineering or process improvements that make this equal in scope and cost than other options... this requires it to already be a hit somewhere else.
3. People going whack crazy about the idea, and demanding it a la Marge vs. The Monorail, and we all burst out in song to make it happen.
4. An angel investor or foreign government or corporation that wants to push their maglev agenda.
But ya know, there are a lot of other things in the world that are maybe more important, like poverty reduction, reforming education for an information society, doing something about immigration, etc... and I feel bad to keep talking crazy monorails and stuff when real things need to be done, but that gets into murky waters about whether you really can change the world or not... and "solutions" can be a double-edged sword, sometimes causing as much harm as good. I think its great we're getting a big sewer upgrade 'cause those signs back in the woods at the Park of Roses about sewage runoff always made me sad a little.
I agree that it would be breathtaking to ride a maglev up and down the Olentangy this time year.
shroud
Polaris
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I'd totally geek out for a Columbus monorail - even if it was only a limited line like the north corridor project or an east/west airport corridor.
That said, if people can't get behind Light Rail in this town, I don't see any better prospects for a Monorail catching on, given the added cost of track maintenance.
LauraA
LaLaland
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i used to live in seattle and most people were completely antimonorail, but that may be because seattle already has a great transportation system. all the downtown buses are free, i guess if we did that here all the buses would be free, as it seems few go to the burbs.
chaptal
West Side
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I never saw this thread until now. If I remember right, additional plans for Ameriflora back in 1992 called for a Monorail between Wolfe and Franklin Parks to shuttle the masses of people expected to come to the flower show.
Obviously that did not happen.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Lakee911 wrote >>
Where did the map come from?
So, what's the difference between light rail, high-speed rail, mono-rail, trains, trollys, etc?
th0m made it: http://www.columbusunderground.com/potential-columbus-light-rail-map
As for the differences in systems:
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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Lakee911 wrote >>
So, what's the difference between light rail, high-speed rail, mono-rail, trains, trollys, etc?
just to catch ya up...
light rail: moves people around parts of a city within a rail dedicated right-of-way (sometimes in tunnels, i.e. subway). The idea is that it's faster than a bus to go crosstown and more efficient than a bus because of lower rolling friction and efficiency of scale therefore less expensive per passenger mile to operate once built. Also easier to electrically power than buses, to eliminate the need for diesel and, in practice, smooth out funding problems caused by rapid fluctuation of fuel prices.
high-speed rail: moves people between cities. In theory, quickly. In practice it's difficult except in flat places. Basic Amtrak trains currently run pretty slow through the mountains but once on flat land they can go 120mph. The high speed trains on the other hand can get up over 200 mph. High speed rail systems are designed to have the speed and efficiency advantage over cars, and an efficiency advantage over airplanes. In current practice amtrak's only high speed system has not been completed yet, and large sections of track remain un-improved which hinders speed. However, the improved tracks allow other trains that use them to run at top speed, which is awesome when you're on one.
Mono-rail: Designed originally to implement a light rail system on a small, single rail to minimize disruption of tight urban areas where tunneling is not practical. The first was actually designed to run suspended over top of a river in a town in Germany where no other space was available for a rail system. It is still in operation today after over 100 years and moves 25 million people per year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwebebahn_Wuppertal The Seattle monorail was designed to move people from the downtown area to the site of the worlds fair. It was built quickly in modular sections and was originally designed to be REMOVED after the fair. however, it had already payed for itself so they decided to just keep it around.
Trollies: also called streetcars are lower speed rail systems designed to run along existing streets and move people around within a neighborhood. The advantage over buses is central electrical power and reduced rolling friction which serves to lower per-passenger operating costs, and quiet operation, which minimizes operating disruption of quiet neighborhoods. There is greater impact to an area with streetcars than with a monorail (suspended OVER the street). But, there is an accessibility and cost advantage, as people can just simply step on and off the cars at stops and not have to climb stairs to station stops. Some 'streetbus' systems use modified buses that click onto the overhead power system to take advantage of electrical power. These lose the advantage of having a lower rolling friction and thus have higher operating costs with a trade-off of lower one time construction costs.
Columbusite
Minneapolis
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lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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