Millennials, Gen Y, The Suburbs and The National Housing Crisis

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Millennials, Gen Y, The Suburbs and The National Housing Crisis

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Started 1 year ago by Walker
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lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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I can talk to buffalos said:
Again, the only two downtown residents seem to agree. Why do you not move downtown then if it is so great? LOTW you as well? Why do you not move downtown?

1) Value for my money, namely. I have a 1,000 sq ft. 2 bedroom bachelor pad with a garage large enough for me to eventually put a work-stand and tools in for my bike and set up a home gym. Far less than I would pay for the condo or apartment downtown and the related fees.

2) Space to put in a serious garden, so the grocery issue largely becomes moot.

3) Awesome, off the beaten path food places. Like the mecca of taco trucks, the Jamerican place a 2 minute walk from my house or Luc's.

4) Density-our neighborhood has a pretty good stretch of commercial real estate along W. Broad ripe for development. I am cautiously optimistic that some good can happen here and am taking the gamble that it will, over time. With the casino a mile or two west, the developments slated to happen that way it's not a bad bet.

5) Access to transit and bike infrastructure. Though not as great as downtown, I still have access to the one of the lines, #10, that will be at the top of the improvement list year to year. Also access to the trail ways.

Posted 1 year ago #
Glaze

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Buffalo man, could you keep the arguments on the topic and not against users? It's sort of driving this thing off topic.

Speaking of status quo and the original topic...

One reason people move into suburbs is because it feels more acceptable (depending on education, where they grew up, etc). Suburbs just feel safer even if they are not. They feel like a safe investment, a safe school district, a safe commute, safe public space filled with safe little rows of houses. Even if none of this is true, the area will still be pushed to sell the image.

Downtown regions vary widely in their population, and can house (or at least be frequented by) the richest and poorest tenants. You can't feel safe when you're being totally immersed in a big heaping stew of humanity. You can't feel ignored when there are hundreds of pedestrians and cars just outside your window. People remember this feeling when they go downtown to participate in the bureaucracy, shop, or go to the city colleges. Downtown is seen as a public space, not a living space. And kids remember their experiences with that notion as they grow.

The problem with our downtown is that it may end up being both a poor living space and public space. It's decent, it's livable, but it can be much better. Recent efforts at innovation downtown may help raise the quality of life in the future, but I see them more as a mask for underlying problems which are hard to program out of people.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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I can talk to buffalos said:
Downtown is dead, certain pockets of downtown are lively, but on a whole it is dead.

You know what would make Downtown move lively?

If everyone ran around complaining about how dead it is to everyone else. That'll really make people want to spend time Downtown.

Anyway, I had a good time tonight at MoJoe, OSU Urban Arts Space and Columbus Commons. Could Downtown be better? Sure, but until then we can support what we currently have and advocate for more improvements.

Posted 1 year ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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Seems like car-sharing would be good for people like Glaze who don't have a car but need to make short grocery trips or occasional trips to the suburbs. I'm a little surprised this only exists on campus. I would think at least the SN/VV/IV/GV/BD could support a few cars if not downtown itself.

Posted 1 year ago #
cc

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johnwirtz said:
Seems like car-sharing would be good for people like Glaze who don't have a car but need to make short grocery trips or occasional trips to the suburbs. I'm a little surprised this only exists on campus. I would think at least the SN/VV/IV/GV/BD could support a few cars if not downtown itself.

+100 - I think an easy to use car sharing system downtown would really make the weekly grocery trip so much easier.

Posted 1 year ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Glaze said:
Speaking of status quo and the original topic...

One reason people move into suburbs is because it feels more acceptable (depending on education, where they grew up, etc). Suburbs just feel safer even if they are not. They feel like a safe investment, a safe school district, a safe commute, safe public space filled with safe little rows of houses. Even if none of this is true, the area will still be pushed to sell the image.

Funny you mention this considering the experience I had with friends tonight. We all fall in the millennial. At one point over drinks tonight we hear my friend's experience having a table saw stolen from a town home in Dublin.

At another point in the night, we're talking DIY mishaps and I mention how I can't wait to have my own stories this year. That gets the usual "Don't spend money...Hilltop is the worst" line of BS. Didn't mention I came home one day to my back door wide open (my deadbolt doesn't latch well so the door blows open if I am not anally retentive about checking) for at least 6-8 hours. Nothing missing. Another time my landlord asked me to keep my garage door unlocked so they could install an overhead, said the workers would re-lock my door. Well I wake up at 7-8 PM to start heading to work and go out to check their work. My door is still unlocked!

Both times I could have easily been cleaned out of a few nice things. Yet in the "worst" neighborhood I have two occasions where nothing happened. So yeah, anecdotes are anecdotes but just an interesting experience regarding perceptions and reality.

Posted 1 year ago #
cc

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I had never really heard of the Hilltop considered the 'worst' in regards to crime. I agree that stereotypes really are a bit unwarranted, but mostly I think there is a fear of inconsistency. Newer generations are trained (by large chains and mass marketing - McDonalds, Target etc) to want to have the same consistent product. They want to know what they are getting and they want to be 'safe'. I am not necessarily talking about 'safe' from crime, but safe from variables. I have plenty of friends in the Hilltop. The stereotype is that it has a large mix of low income people and that the upkeep and quality of houses (and nieghbors and schools) varies widely. There is a concern by some that despite efforts to invest in their homes it may be adversely effected by others who are outside of their control.

This also goes for some suburbs as well. I have friends who are also avoiding the areas around Blacklick and Grove City because they are afraid of lax zoning. They are afraid that nieghbors may start storing Rv's and junked cars in their yards. There are no guarantees in life, but for a long time the concept that buying a house in certain areas was a 'safe' investment seemed universal. I think that is a bit dated now, but there are still areas that are more consistent than others. It may be flawed, but I think a lot of people still have a stock market approach to looking at nieghborhoods where they tend to try and avoid risk in long term investments. I think that this risk avoidance increases with age.

Posted 1 year ago #
scorpcmh

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I can't check this every day so I am as usual late to the discussion. I am rather amazed at all the complaining about nothing to do downtown, and having to walk for 30 or 40 minutes. I am older than most everyone on here(50) and have lived all over Columbus, now downtown. I live in a modest condo unit. I have also traveled extensively in the U.S. and overseas so I have plenty to compare to. For those comparing to much larger cities, I say apples and oranges.

First, I walk all over downtown and to the short north and arena districts, which are about 15 minutes. I have NEVER had a 40 minute walk anywhere downtown. The Brewery District Kroger is closer than the grocery stores I shopped when in the burbs. (5 minutes by car, 10 by bike) not to mention the adjoining Giant Eagle stores which are smaller but same distance.

I will agree that if you don't patronize the 5 theaters, the fantastic main library, the museum, COSI, ballpark, arena, Arena Grand theater, numerous parks and free events/concerts, growing number of bars/restaurants, bike trail system, gyms/main y,etc, then there is really no reason to live downtown.

Are there too many parking lots and a lack of affordable retail?...YES. And the city has been addressing that issue for several years now, along with other issues. If there were never any changes or improvements happening I could understand complaints. But I think it is more the glass being half empty or half full.

Posted 1 year ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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cc said:
I had never really heard of the Hilltop considered the 'worst' in regards to crime.

I'm not trying to paint that as the case. Just found the comment I responded to interesting considering the experience and conversation I had just had with friends.

Frankly I'd go nuts with routine, kind of like the crazy out here.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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cc said:
I had never really heard of the Hilltop considered the 'worst' in regards to crime. I agree that stereotypes really are a bit unwarranted, but mostly I think there is a fear of inconsistency. Newer generations are trained (by large chains and mass marketing - McDonalds, Target etc) to want to have the same consistent product. They want to know what they are getting and they want to be 'safe'. I am not necessarily talking about 'safe' from crime, but safe from variables. I have plenty of friends in the Hilltop. The stereotype is that it has a large mix of low income people and that the upkeep and quality of houses (and nieghbors and schools) varies widely. There is a concern by some that despite efforts to invest in their homes it may be adversely effected by others who are outside of their control.

This also goes for some suburbs as well. I have friends who are also avoiding the areas around Blacklick and Grove City because they are afraid of lax zoning. They are afraid that nieghbors may start storing Rv's and junked cars in their yards. There are no guarantees in life, but for a long time the concept that buying a house in certain areas was a 'safe' investment seemed universal. I think that is a bit dated now, but there are still areas that are more consistent than others. It may be flawed, but I think a lot of people still have a stock market approach to looking at nieghborhoods where they tend to try and avoid risk in long term investments. I think that this risk avoidance increases with age.

Very well said.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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scorpcmh said:
I will agree that if you don't patronize the 5 theaters, the fantastic main library, the museum, COSI, ballpark, arena, Arena Grand theater, numerous parks and free events/concerts, growing number of bars/restaurants, bike trail system, gyms/main y,etc, then there is really no reason to live downtown.

+1

scorpcmh said:
Are there too many parking lots and a lack of affordable retail?...YES. And the city has been addressing that issue for several years now, along with other issues. If there were never any changes or improvements happening I could understand complaints. But I think it is more the glass being half empty or half full.

Yeah, Downtown has changed drastically in the past decade. Change is always slower than people want it to be, but if you can really step back and look at a multi-year effort, there's a lot of new stuff to enjoy that simply wasn't there 10 years ago.

Posted 1 year ago #
TomOver
lovecause.org
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manticore33 said:
Gramarye: I wrestle quite a bit with centralized production and distributed production. If powerful production can be located near the big-dense city it would supply it efficiently. However, I still wonder if would it be better to have a string of smaller decentralized complete communities (as in you don't need to leave the community for much of anything besides novelty) that are semi-nearby. Or possible establish distributed backyard agriculture (where everyone shared a bit of land to plant a community garden or take). It is sort of like Linux versus Microsoft; which is really a better model in terms of O/S development.

Next, I question the overall quality of life. Does a big-dense city improve or degrade the quality of life? Dense areas generate a lot of pollution and waste and depend on massively integrated systems to function. However, efficiency rewards massive and highly repeatable efforts. Whereas a country home could need relatively little if you can be self-sufficient. However, its production and efficiency is not as high. Not saying one is better than the other, but questions I ponder.

In addition, I question the viability of large cities in in a geographical areas where it takes a tremendous amount of resources for production and livability. For instance, the South has grown by leaps and bounds since the 1950s because of air conditioning. However, the more dry areas are starting to run into water supply problems because of droughts. Could an area like this maintain an every increasing population and supply food from the local region? Or will it rely on old supply methods?

I have noticed that more and more younger people are interested in taking control of different aspects of their lives. For instance the massive movement towards "urban homesteading." My wife and I are included in that group. I never grew up with a garden or even canned. Now we do both and are contemplating backyard chickens and we have already planted two apple trees and several blueberry bushes. This type of movement could push back to on dense urban dwellings in favor of older city neighborhoods/suburbs opposed to tract home. However, I still think perception of affordability is a significant factor.

Thankfully Ohio has very good access to resources. And, my personal garden needs very little intervention to grow and produce good yields.

I used to work in child support enforcement and spent many-a-days at the court house and the need for face-to-face time and court appearances. However, a combination work at home and work onsite might become more attractive options, especially when you start considering motivation, flow, peak creativity hours, and the fact eight hours onsite does not equate to eight hours of great accomplishments.

Sounds like you've thought about this more than just a bit. You've mentioned water insecurity in the US south, but what is your perspective on other resource issues such as peak oil ?

Posted 1 year ago #
News
Columbus Underground
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The XYZs of Selling to Gen Y
Posted on: July 5, 2012
By Teresa Burney

Three years ago, when Pulte merged with Centex Homes to become PulteGroup, executives knew they wanted to build an entry-level brand under the Centex name. Three years later it has unrolled a plan and products it hopes will make it happen.

“We knew we had a hole in our portfolio,” said Fred Ehle, PulteGroup’s vice president of marketing. So about two years ago the company began brainstorming to figure out what Gen. Y, the largest age demographic in the country's history, wants in a home and how to get them to buy.

READ MORE: http://www.builderonline.com/sales/pultegroups-xyzs-of-selling-to-gen-y.aspx?cid=BBU%3A070512

Posted 10 months ago #
News
Columbus Underground
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DESIGNING WALKABLE DOWNTOWNS HELP CITIES REAP REAL BENEFITS

There are three primary benefits to being walkable: economic, health and environment.

Economic: The reality is that 64% of Millennials are now choosing where they want to live before finding a job, and 77% plan to live in urban areas. This data is supported by the fact that one in four teenagers are opting out of obtaining drivers licenses nowadays. There has been a major cultural shift where young people are no longer buying cars and houses. Millennials want to be close to work, entertainment, public transit and other amenities.

READ MORE: http://www.icic.org/connection/blog-entry/blog-planning-to-walk

Posted 6 months ago #
News
Columbus Underground
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Do Millennials Want to Call Your City ‘Home’?
BY: WILLIAM FULTON | NOVEMBER 2012

I knew the “brain drain” problem had reached a crisis point when they started talking about it in Boston. You know the story: Kids move to where they want to live and then look for a job, not the other way around. They’re drawn to a small number of hip metro areas (D.C., San Francisco, Seattle) and smaller cities (Boulder, Colo.; Missoula, Mont.; Palo Alto, Calif.) around the country and hip employers follow them. The result is an upward cycle of talent and jobs and business growth in the fashionable places, and a downward cycle everywhere else.

READ MORE: http://www.governing.com/columns/eco-engines/col-are-cities-ready-for-millennials.html

Posted 6 months ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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Is that statement that Millennials move to where they want to live and then look for a job empirically true, or just conventional wisdom that might be up for a little examination?

A number of others who graduated from Ohio State with me in 2004 did go to Chicago, the stereotypical Midwestern Mecca. However, to the best of my knowledge, all of them had job offers there when they went. They didn't move there and then start looking for a job.

Perhaps one can say that high-achieving graduates (those with options) might narrow down their job searches to particular markets before they move. And perhaps my own experience is not representative and I shouldn't read too much into the personal experiences and attitudes of my Buckeye friends. Nevertheless, in a world as uncertain as today's, which is the only one the Millennials have ever known, the notion that the dominant mode of thinking is to move to your dream city with no job and expect things to just fall into place seems somewhat fanciful. This is particularly true if your dream city is an expensive market like Boston or San Francisco.

Posted 6 months ago #
GCrites80s
5xNW
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I think that's the difference between rich kids and normal kids.

Posted 6 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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GCrites80s said:
I think that's the difference between rich kids and normal kids.

I think normal kids can relocate to another city if they have a friend's couch to crash on when they arrive and job/apartment hunt. Not that that is a new concept... but I do think Millennials are probably more likely to have digital friends online in locations more far flung than just in their own neighborhood.

Posted 6 months ago #
GCrites80s
5xNW
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Oh, I'd be afraid of someone from the internet stealing my kidneys ;)

Posted 6 months ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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Walker said:
I think normal kids can relocate to another city if they have a friend's couch to crash on when they arrive and job/apartment hunt. Not that that is a new concept... but I do think Millennials are probably more likely to have digital friends online in locations more far flung than just in their own neighborhood.

Hah! It's true that if one of my college friends from OSU wanted to move to Akron, I'd let them crash on my couch for bit. (My wife might be more reluctant to allow it, but if I promised that said friend would take my ugly-@$$ couch with them when they left, she'd probably be fine with it.) However, my generosity might not last for months. What if you move to a city, crash on a friend's couch, and never find a job? Move along to another city after a few weeks?

Posted 6 months ago #