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YouTubeWalker said:
and quality and convenience can trump anything
That's where I'm at.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion
"Made in America" - Do you care?
[29 posts] [22 contributors]
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vestanpance
Harrison West/at work OSU
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Posted 3 months ago # -
myliftkk
Columbus, OH
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Barry Ritholtz sends us to a San Francisco Fed paper from last summer that makes a point on which many people seem confused: despite globalization and all that, the bulk of a consumer dollar spent in America falls on American-produced goods and services.
The reason this matters — or at least one reason it matters — is for discussion of austerity, stimulus, and all that. I often get comments along the lines of “Well, maybe stimulus worked back in the old days, but now it just means spending more on stuff from China”. In reality, that’s nowhere near true.
Why? For one thing, most consumer spending is on services, few of which are really tradable. For another, even if the thing you buy in WalMart says “Made in China”, the price includes a lot of US value-added in the form of transportation and retailing costs.
Posted 3 months ago # -
misskitty
Columbus
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shmack said:
No one is trying to poison you or me. There are plenty of well made, well regulated, high quality, food stuffs being exported out of China. In the same vein, the US is trying to export pork laden with hormones banned in the EU and China. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paula-crossfield/controversial-animal-drug_b_1230713.html)All too often the flip side of the "Made in the USA" discussion is the "Made in China" argument. Quite frankly, I like my European chocolates, pine nuts, and olive oils; Japanese candies, snacks, and condiments; my local produce and milk; my American cosmetics and skin care products; my electronics designed in Cupertino (or Japan, Korea, or wherever) and assembled in China.
The whole Made in America "bias" is just xenophobia and frustrations over a declining US economy. I'd like to see more high-tech manufacturing jobs return to the US but we're also really good at research, innovation, and creativity. We need to develop those sectors of our economy so we can continue to be competitive globally.
Whoa, before we go labeling people as xenophobes I support your love of European nuts, understand that in addition to their products I also think their labor practices are shit why support that or them? Sure, they do make some great products. But wasn’t it just two weeks ago that they had an entire factory of Xbox and Apple assemblers threaten to kill themselves unless they got a 25 cent raise something to think about while typing on your mac or Ipad.. I prefer not to have my kid sucking on toys that have any number of (insert toxic metals and chemicals here) he already has enough issues. I am not afraid of anything new or different you got that dead ass wrong I can’t speak for others I am noting my personal opinion on the matter.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Twixlen
Westgate, Columbus
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European goods and Asian goods are very different. Especially, when it comes to China, which is the red-headed stepchild of all manufacturing to many in the US. Yes, their labor practices can be odious - but consider them to be industrially at the same point we were in the first three decades of the 1900's - it's just that the goods and processes are generally much more sophisticated. And yes, there have been short cuts in their processes, and I'd like to think the terrible press they've gotten in the past couple of years over their missteps has caused more awareness of the impact of such shortcuts & cheapening (I always think of the wheat gluten issue in pet food that killed so many dear pets).
But how do we really avoid them? Is not buying *any* electronic item really going to solve their labor issues? The people there have to find it in themselves to stand up, and demand more - which they've been doing.
If there's going to be outrage, it should be over all of the minerals and metals that are mined for our electronics. The conditions those metals are mined under are barbaric. Even very small children are part of the process, with no regard for their health or needs. There's been some call for "Bloodless" mineral mining, and some creation of a standard, but I don't know how it would ever be enforced. We've known about the diamond/gemstone trade's issues for decades, and it hasn't done much.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Analogue Kid
5th by West-Northwest
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Twixlen said:
If there's going to be outrage, it should be over all of the minerals and metals that are mined for our electronics. The conditions those metals are mined under are barbaric. Even very small children are part of the process, with no regard for their health or needs. There's been some call for "Bloodless" mineral mining, and some creation of a standard, but I don't know how it would ever be enforced. We've known about the diamond/gemstone trade's issues for decades, and it hasn't done much.Agreed, and hopefully there will be some progress on this front by re-opening precious metal mines in the USA that were previously closed due to low demand.
As for the original topic, yes I do seek out USA products where available. I have been buying New Balance shoes for the past 10 years for example (and checking the labels, as not all are domestic).
Electronics are especially tough to find, but I did consider that my Taiwanese HTC smartphone has Qualcomm processors and Corning Gorilla glass when I was purchasing it (not to mention Google software). On that note, I wish these folks great success: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/element-electronics-america-matters-137021908.html
Posted 3 months ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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This echoes the theme that several have already raised:
Honda is a Japanese company that assembles cars in the USA--some just a few miles outside Columbus.
Apple is an American company that assembles its products in China.
So which of those products gets the "made in the USA" brand?
*****
On another note: Note that the analysis shouldn't even stop with where the corporate headquarters is located.
Apple is headquartered in the USA, but a significant portion of its $90+ billion cash hoard is located outside the USA, because of the repatriation taxes that would slice a huge chunk off of any money Apple brought back to the USA. Most of that money will stay overseas.
"Honda" is a Japanese company, but Honda of America is an American company set up specifically so the parent company could do business more easily here. That includes keeping a lot of its American-earned US dollars here in America. The only part of all of Honda of America's revenue that goes back to the parent company is a dividend, which is hardly the lion's share of all that revenue. Most of that money will stay here.
You can add another layer of analysis by looking beyond the corporate headquarters to the shareholders. Honda is headquartered in Japan. So? It's a publicly traded company. You can even buy it on the NYSE (HMC). If you (or your pension fund, or any fund in your 401(k) menu that happens to like the company) does so, then the profits will go back to Japan for a brief moment--and then come straight back to America to the shareholder.
This is a large part of what we mean when we talk about an integrated, globalized economy. The location of the corporate headquarters still matters, but not as much as it used to. What is a manufactured good, and what is made in the USA?
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I appreciate the point about services generally being provided locally, but that demands at least a little bit of analysis as well. Suppose I get my cell phone service from T-Mobile. That's an American subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom, I believe. Of course, T-Mobile is a huge subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom (AT&T recently offered to buy them for $35 billion, IIRC), with a huge amount of American employees and assets (towers, etc.). So tell me--am I paying a German company or an American one for cell phone service?
Also, suppose that merger between AT&T and T-Mobile had been approved. (Regulators put the kibosh on it.) Would my cell phone service be "more American" even though it would be coming through pretty much the exact same cell phone towers, switches, etc., just with profits flowing into an American-headquartered corporation (notwithstanding the fact that any global investor could easily own a big slice of AT&T if they wanted)?
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Really, the location of the corporate headquarters matters least. The location of the workers and physical locations is generally paramount because those generally represent the lion's share of the revenue commitment of most companies. The location of the shareholders comes second, because they're ultimately who actually gains most from the corporate profits. (Admittedly, the location of the corporate HQ matters for tax revenue purposes, so governments should care.) The location of HQ matters because of the government revenue and because of the likelihood that senior management will be selected from the population of the headquarters country (still not guaranteed, but the stats lean heavily that way, I think). Nationwide Insurance would not have been inclined to build the Arena District in any randomly chosen city; the proximity to its HQ I'm sure mattered for that. Those have some significance, but not the same level as the actual operational centers (where most revenue will go) and the location of the shareholders (where most profits will go).
Posted 3 months ago # -
James
Upper Arlington
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gramarye said:
This echoes the theme that several have already raised:Honda is a Japanese company that assembles cars in the USA--some just a few miles outside Columbus.
Apple is an American company that assembles its products in China.
So which of those products gets the "made in the USA" brand?
*****
"Made in USA" is a specific definition - "all or virtually all" of the product must be made here. I'm not sure if a car can legally have a "Made in USA" claim, but I don't think any cars made meet would that standard. The government mandated content labeling on cars shows that the car with the highest U.S. content is the Camry - and this still tops out at 92% US content.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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James
Upper Arlington
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Andrew Hall said:
Amazingly, "here" can be about 6500mi away.A.
http://www.globallabourrights.org/reports?id=0215
For every law, there's a lobbyist in the background.Posted 3 months ago #
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