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Light Rail in Central Ohio

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Started 11 months ago by stephentszuter
Latest reply from jbcmh81

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6a
Westgate
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The Peoples Champion said:
If you think 600 million right now is worth it, use good ol' fashion democracy and take it to the people. You won't get anywhere without their support. And when you tell them that they gotta pay for it, just tell them, "Well it may not be of any use now. But MAYBE we can use it in 50 years...".

These are the people that considered it Fine Business to continue having an abandoned prison and Fallout 3 warehouses where there is now a rather active arena area. Personal feelings aside, I find it hard to believe the whole of Franklin County would vote to support a rail plan. You could pay Sullivant Ave hookers to shout "OH TRAIN, OH TRAIN, OH GOD TRAIN" and it still wouldn't convince Johnny Dime-a-dog that it's a good idea.

Posted 11 months ago #
CooperGuy

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DTown said:
Dispatch endorsed it, 96,000 people voted for it. In 1999. It didn't pass, for a variety of reasons. Although, interestingly, the combined votes for both Issues 20 & 21 would have passed them both, instead of individually voting 1 up and one down. That adds fuel to the argument that splitting the two issues apart contributed to the defeat Issue 21.

But saying no one supports it is wrong. Want to vote again?

Sorry, there was only one reason it didn't pass, a majority of the voters voted against it. 119,350 to be exact.

Issue 20 passed in support of COTA's existing 1/4-cent sales tax, while Issue 21, which would have provided an additional ten year 1/4-cent tax for new commuter trains was squashed by voters. Only 13 years ago people supported COTA, but they didn't want a train. Sure, let's have another vote.

Sorry if this has already been linked. Interesting read on failed transportation initiatives including Columbus.

http://transweb.sjsu.edu/mtiportal/research/publications/documents/BallotMeasures.htm

Posted 11 months ago #
DTown
Discovery District South
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CooperGuy said:
Sure, let's have another vote.

See? We're starting to get a grassroots groundswell.

Posted 11 months ago #
Twixlen
The Weston District
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The Peoples Champion said:
What's that have to do with anything. One minute it's, "Where's your proof.". You get proof, now it's, "Well, 80 years ago, we had horses and buggies.". I see a lot of politicians using the guise of civil duty.

If you think 600 million right now is worth it, use good ol' fashion democracy and take it to the people. You won't get anywhere without their support. And when you tell them that they gotta pay for it, just tell them, "Well it may not be of any use now. But MAYBE we can use it in 50 years...".

I haven't seen this much bait and switch, since I went to Best Buy.

No, the point is that you like to pay fast & loose with facts. Just helping you out, seeing as how your google seems to be broken.

Posted 11 months ago #
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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Twixlen said:
No, the point is that you like to pay fast & loose with facts. Just helping you out, seeing as how your google seems to be broken.

Lol @fast and loose. My google worked fine to find out about that 600 million dollar failure of light rail. I apologize if I rely on the people and their opinion. Maybe that's why we have light rail here now.

Seems like you pick and choose what you see to your benefit. Explain why we should vote for it now. Nobody who supports this can't give hard concrete facts in support other than we need it.

Posted 11 months ago #
CooperGuy

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DTown said:
See? We're starting to get a grassroots groundswell.

Don't think it's all that. But hey, if the majority would want it go for it.

Posted 11 months ago #
Graybeak
Hunky Town
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lifeontwowheels said:
I probably missed it...when did we take a vote to spend billions on the split fix?

Or millions on purchasing the Arena?

Posted 11 months ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Graybeak said:
Or millions on purchasing the Arena?

Who cares about the arena? Why are some obsessed with wanting to vote on any rail or transit improvement yet never seem to want to vote for highway infrastructure improvements?

Posted 11 months ago #
Twixlen
The Weston District
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The Peoples Champion said:
Lol @fast and loose. My google worked fine to find out about that 600 million dollar failure of light rail. I apologize if I rely on the people and their opinion. Maybe that's why we have light rail here now.

Seems like you pick and choose what you see to your benefit. Explain why we should vote for it now. Nobody who supports this can't give hard concrete facts in support other than we need it.

Actually, Walker posted a number of links about the benefits of improved transportation options and rail systems. And I'm not saying we should vote for it. I actually disagree that the public needs to vote on every-damn-thing.
I think there are things that are public good, that do not take away from the rights of others, that improves cities. This is one of those things.

You can disagree with that, and obviously do, but a vote from 13 years ago hardly stands has public opinion now. Cincinnati - their city council voted the streetcar project in in 2008, after a study was done. It was put to a vote twice, in 2009 & 2011 - and people vote *for* it both times. How much taxpayer money was wasted, both in delaying the project & going thru the voting process? Millions.

Posted 11 months ago #
bman
New Albany
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Twixlen said:
Actually, Walker posted a number of links about the benefits of improved transportation options and rail systems. And I'm not saying we should vote for it. I actually disagree that the public needs to vote on every-damn-thing.
I think there are things that are public good, that do not take away from the rights of others, that improves cities. This is one of those things.

You can disagree with that, and obviously do, but a vote from 13 years ago hardly stands has public opinion now. Cincinnati - their city council voted the streetcar project in in 2008, after a study was done. It was put to a vote twice, in 2009 & 2011 - and people vote *for* it both times. How much taxpayer money was wasted, both in delaying the project & going thru the voting process? Millions.

So in an economy that is near depression, deficits as high as we can see for as far out as we can see you want to spend billions on something that is something maybe .5% of the populace would use without public input. That doesn't sound much like a democracy or majority rule concept.

Posted 11 months ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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For my money, I'd rather have have 100 miles of BRT for $400 million (assumes $4 M / mile, slightly more than Cleveland Ave project), than 10 miles of LRT for $400 million (assumes a generously low cost of $40 million / mile). That would increase ridership much more dramatically system-wide.

Posted 11 months ago #
stephentszuter
Downtown Columbus
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lifeontwowheels said:
I probably missed it...when did we take a vote to spend billions on the split fix?

+1

Posted 11 months ago #
stephentszuter
Downtown Columbus
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johnwirtz said:
Ah. I'm not from Chicago living in Columbus. I'm from Columbus living in Chicago.

Ohhhkay. You're like my siblings (ex-Columbusites, newer Chicagoans).

Would you move back if we had rail?

Posted 11 months ago #
stephentszuter
Downtown Columbus
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uncleboo said:
Two things:

1) There is a very interesting series this week on NPR called "urban life in the 21st century" that hasn't yet touched on rail alternatives within mass transit yet but since it is only Wednesday maybe that is still to come.

I think this is the stuff he was talking about: npr.org/series/155914958/npr-cities

Posted 11 months ago #
stephentszuter
Downtown Columbus
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According to this chart, I don't live in a city. I currently live in Downtown Columbus.
I find this very interesting...
I only hit four lights on the way to work. 97% of my travel time is on the highway, though.

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/02/155989757/do-you-live-in-a-city-hm-lets-find-out

Do you live in a city, according to this chart?

Posted 11 months ago #
stephentszuter
Downtown Columbus
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Pretty relevant to this topic! Click on the mass transit and see how small Columbus' dot is.

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/18/156628503/drive-time-commuting-in-american-cities

Especially compared with the other two large cities in Ohio.

And then the average time shows us at pretty close levels.

Posted 11 months ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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stephentszuter said:
Ohhhkay. You're like my siblings (ex-Columbusites, newer Chicagoans).

Would you move back if we had rail?

I'd move back if I could find a job that interests me, like working on the planning of the rail.

Posted 11 months ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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stephentszuter said:
According to this chart, I don't live in a city. I currently live in Downtown Columbus.
I find this very interesting...
I only hit four lights on the way to work. 97% of my travel time is on the highway, though.

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/02/155989757/do-you-live-in-a-city-hm-lets-find-out

Do you live in a city, according to this chart?

Funny stuff. I don't fit on the chart though. I take commuter rail to work (except when I bike).

Posted 11 months ago #
stephentszuter
Downtown Columbus
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johnwirtz said:
Funny stuff. I don't fit on the chart though. I take commuter rail to work (except when I bike).

I should note that I live on the highway downtown.

Posted 11 months ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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stephentszuter said:
I should note that I live on the highway downtown.

Not literally on the highway I assume.

Posted 11 months ago #