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Light Rail in Central Ohio

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Started 10 months ago by stephentszuter
Latest reply from jbcmh81

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DTown
Discovery District South
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The Peoples Champion said:
LA also has the Dodgers, Lakers, Clippers, and places to go, things to do. And, I still sat in traffic for a notoriously long time out there. Their traffic didn't get any better, it got worse. It's like Columbus, just without the fun things to do..

Nonetheless, their rail system is successful.

I'm not saying rail would be a panacea, just an alternative. And a positive alternative at that.

Look, Columbus has a long track record of doing things that didn't make much sense. Some failed, some succeeded. None turned Columbus into Norfolk, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, or LA.

But, if we're talking about something that could do some good, not make things worse, add alternatives and options for the future, and actually raise some overall revenue (not just from fares), then this is a viable option. Better than most I've heard tossed about lately.

Saying no, simply because someone personally wouldn't use it, or can't imagine why anyone else would just doesn't make sense to me.

Oh, and by the way, it's well after 5pm, and I can hear The Offspring concert at the Commons. So, you know, there's that.

Posted 10 months ago #
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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600 million dollars for a line from D'Town to Polaris got scrapped because of a lack of federal funding

600 million all for 30 people??? Sign me up!!

Posted 10 months ago #
bman
New Albany
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The Peoples Champion said:
600 million dollars for a line from D'Town to Polaris got scrapped because of a lack of federal funding

600 million all for 30 people??? Sign me up!!

Careful we don't use facts and numbers here ... We just bitch about the majority not believing in a minorities dreams.

Posted 10 months ago #
DTown
Discovery District South
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The Peoples Champion said:
600 million dollars for a line from D'Town to Polaris got scrapped because of a lack of federal funding

600 million all for 30 people??? Sign me up!!

Yup. Better some other, more deserving, city get that 600 million. We don't need it.

Posted 10 months ago #
jbcmh81

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The Peoples Champion said:
600 million dollars for a line from D'Town to Polaris got scrapped because of a lack of federal funding

600 million all for 30 people??? Sign me up!!

Interesting how your links don't show lack of public support, but lack of federal funding, which is an entirely different issue. If the proposals were rejected, they likely didn't meet the standards required for it, not that the entire idea was ridiculous from the start.

Posted 10 months ago #
DTown
Discovery District South
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I found more than 30 people!

When the somewhat confusing ballot issue in 1999 was up along side a concurrent renewal of COTAs levy, 96,614 people voted for it. That's like, way more than 30.

Oh, and this, from the Dispatch (back when they didn't charge for online content):

For metropolitan Columbus to remain a place where
people enjoy living, working, and raising a family, the city
must have a convenient, well-used and efficient masstransit system. Voting yes on both Issues 20 and 21 puts a
plan for such a system into action. Issue 20 would turn the
Central Ohio Transit Authority's existing 1/4-cent sales-tax
levy, which expires on Jan. 31, into an equal-sized levy
that would not expire, thus ensuring the continuous source
of revenues necessary to attract federal funding. Issue 21
would establish, for 10 years only, an additional 1/4-cent
sales-tax levy for COTA, allowing a much-needed expansion of the system (Dispatch, Oct. 31, 1999).

Seems if that many people, and our local newspaper, thought we needed it 13 years ago, we should at least be willing to revisit it today, right?

Posted 10 months ago #
geoyui
West Side
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bman said:
Lets pattern ourselves after third world countries. I don't want to live like India, Europe or SE Asia.

bman said:
Careful we don't use facts and numbers here ...

it would ruin the oversimplified statements that are being made.

Posted 10 months ago #
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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DTown said:
I found more than 30 people!

When the somewhat confusing ballot issue in 1999 was up along side a concurrent renewal of COTAs levy, 96,614 people voted for it. That's like, way more than 30.

Oh, and this, from the Dispatch (back when they didn't charge for online content):

For metropolitan Columbus to remain a place where
people enjoy living, working, and raising a family, the city
must have a convenient, well-used and efficient masstransit system. Voting yes on both Issues 20 and 21 puts a
plan for such a system into action. Issue 20 would turn the
Central Ohio Transit Authority's existing 1/4-cent sales-tax
levy, which expires on Jan. 31, into an equal-sized levy
that would not expire, thus ensuring the continuous source
of revenues necessary to attract federal funding. Issue 21
would establish, for 10 years only, an additional 1/4-cent
sales-tax levy for COTA, allowing a much-needed expansion of the system (Dispatch, Oct. 31, 1999).

Seems if that many people, and our local newspaper, thought we needed it 13 years ago, we should at least be willing to revisit it today, right?

What does it say about light rail... It talks about expansion of the system. That could be more buses, more routes, anything. I'm talking about light rail. When someone makes an unpopular point about light rail, then we talk about transit.

Posted 10 months ago #
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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jbcmh81 said:
Interesting how your links don't show lack of public support, but lack of federal funding, which is an entirely different issue. If the proposals were rejected, they likely didn't meet the standards required for it, not that the entire idea was ridiculous from the start.

You think the mayor was going to come to us, and ask us to fork over 600 million. COTA wasn't running too hot back then, and Coleman needs a job. He would of been pretty stupid to push on this issue at that time.

The city, COTA, ETC scrapped the issue because a couple of nuts would of only supported 600 million dollars for that.

I'm pretty sure if their was huge public support, he would of went ahead and tried to push it.

Posted 10 months ago #
DTown
Discovery District South
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The Peoples Champion said:
What does it say about light rail... It talks about expansion of the system. That could be more buses, more routes, anything. I'm talking about light rail. When someone makes an unpopular point about light rail, then we talk about transit.

Nope. Issue 21 would have provided an additional 1/4-cent tax for a ten-year period in order to provide for significant transit enhancements, including new commuter trains.

The plan (developed in 1995) that spawned Issue 21 included:

Construction of eight commuter rail lines on existing freight lines between
downtown Columbus and its suburbs;
• 83.6 miles of right-of-way would be obtained from freight railroads;
• Purchase of 29 diesel-powered rail cars; and
• Trains that would run on average every 30 minutes from 5:00 A.M. to
Midnight, Monday through Saturday, plus more limited Sunday service.

The downtown “circulation” system would consist of:
• A 1.2-mile street-level rail line opening in 2005 connecting two
neighborhoods that circumscribe the north and south of downtown
Columbus, and
• Two circulator bus loops running north and south along Broad Street, a
major downtown artery.

Sorry, that's light rail.

Dispatch endorsed it, 96,000 people voted for it. In 1999. It didn't pass, for a variety of reasons. Although, interestingly, the combined votes for both Issues 20 & 21 would have passed them both, instead of individually voting 1 up and one down. That adds fuel to the argument that splitting the two issues apart contributed to the defeat Issue 21.

But saying no one supports it is wrong. Want to vote again?

Posted 10 months ago #
cheap
Westgate
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uncleboo said:

While popular opinion is also that we should be a happy motoring country for the foreseeable future, I'd argue that a back-up plan be formulated just in case, and rail transit should be a part of that plan. Just in case.

there ya go

Posted 10 months ago #
Twixlen
The Weston District
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The Peoples Champion said:
You think the mayor was going to come to us, and ask us to fork over 600 million. COTA wasn't running too hot back then, and Coleman needs a job. He would of been pretty stupid to push on this issue at that time.

The city, COTA, ETC scrapped the issue because a couple of nuts would of only supported 600 million dollars for that.

I'm pretty sure if their was huge public support, he would of went ahead and tried to push it.

Since you're so big on facts, I thought I'd point out that Coleman was elected in 1999. This wasn't his plan. '

And, wasn't the previous dude a Republican?

Posted 10 months ago #
6a
Westgate
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jbcmh81 said:
Charlotte, NC? Lower city population, smaller metro population and about 1,000 people less per square mile than Columbus.

Former Charlottean here... That line used an existing railway from downtown to the south side, in some cases running down the middle of South Blvd. In Columbus terms, it would be like building a line from downtown to Polaris. It was the first part of what was to be a five-spoke rail system. Ridership isn't horrible - I think it's around 15,000/day but they are having real problems with the other planned lines. One heading to the east side has been pretty much given up as dead and will probably end up as a BRT line. A heavy rail line to the north (Charlotte's northern suburbs are an obnoxious distance from downtown) is going back and forth, with Norfolk Southern pretty much telling Charlotte to piss off.

But yeah, the population density in the area of the rail line is weird. They made a huge deal about the amount of parking they were building at the stations. I think the one thing holding back the success of that line is the town of Pineville, which flat out refused to allow a station, bringing the line to a somewhat unnatural end.

Posted 10 months ago #
bman
New Albany
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geoyui said:
it would ruin the oversimplified statements that are being made.

Hey, I support a vote ... I wanna give the rail fans what they want, a chance. I will wager EVERYTHING i have that a vote would fail this fall or any fall for the 5-10 year period.

Posted 10 months ago #
The Peoples Champion
The Legion of Doom
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Twixlen said:
Since you're so big on facts, I thought I'd point out that Coleman was elected in 1999. This wasn't his plan. '

And, wasn't the previous dude a Republican?

What's that have to do with anything. One minute it's, "Where's your proof.". You get proof, now it's, "Well, 80 years ago, we had horses and buggies.". I see a lot of politicians using the guise of civil duty.

If you think 600 million right now is worth it, use good ol' fashion democracy and take it to the people. You won't get anywhere without their support. And when you tell them that they gotta pay for it, just tell them, "Well it may not be of any use now. But MAYBE we can use it in 50 years...".

I haven't seen this much bait and switch, since I went to Best Buy.

Posted 10 months ago #
bman
New Albany
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Build it and they will come!

The one argument that I honestly detest is that we need a rail system to keep our smart college graduates here. I disagree, what we need to do most to keep everyone here and have explosive growth is to keep our cost of living low and offer high wages. I for one will stay here and have a better financial life than move to a city with rail that has a higher cost of living.

Posted 10 months ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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stephentszuter said:
Man! I was sure I knew you.

Well I know another John from the Chicago region that lives in Columbus and studied urban planning (not necessarily mass transit, but... slightly related......)

:)

Ah. I'm not from Chicago living in Columbus. I'm from Columbus living in Chicago.

Posted 10 months ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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bman said:
That is Walker's et al's approach. People on here would spend billions even if the vote was overwhelmingly a no!

Don't try to put words in my mouth. Thanks.

Posted 10 months ago #
johnwirtz
Glenview, IL
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columbusmike said:
Ha! You're probably right, but I think it would only make sense to tie a regional master plan together with any future light rail/mass transit network. Not to say that both things cannot happen concurrently.

Absolutely.

Posted 10 months ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

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I'll throw my two cents in like usual.

- Our town is currently the 3rd largest metro population, behind Cleveland, and Cincinnati.

- Columbus is not landlocked and if suburbs continue to grow outward, less people would go downtown, because more than likely more shopping would be available.

- We need to start small and think more street car ideas connecting East Franklinton, Short North, OTE, King Lincoln, and German Village. Each community has a multi-lane road that could easily hold a street car line.

- More people need to live downtown

- encourage more methods of transportation (Bus and Bike).

- random, bold idea Cut down on lanes downtown (Streetcar, on-street barking, bus only lanes, and bike lanes), causing more backup downtown and making people use other forms of transit

- Private funding for rail or have massive amounts of ads on the train to help pay for it.

- increase cops downtown and along popular places the train would unload to ensure public safety

I could design a city that I want, but that would be Sim City.

Posted 10 months ago #