Kucinich should have been allowed to debate tonight « Columbus Underground Messageboard

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Kucinich should have been allowed to debate tonight

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Started 4 years ago by wildgoose77
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wildgoose77
Not at all creative.
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General Electric-NBC-Universal should not have excluded Kucinich from the debate tonight. Granted his numbers are low, but he hasn't withdrawn from the race and he remains a legitimate candidate and his opinion matters.
GE-NBC-Univ excluded him for economic reasons, fearing his presence would negatively impact their ratings. What's worse, the Democratic Party was totally complicit with the decision, knowing full well that they need the support of this powerful corporation to successfully beat the Republicans in the fall.
It's this systematic isolation and silencing of progressive candidates like Kucinich that convince knuckleheads like Nader that they have to run as 3rd party candidates. It's just bullshit. Totally frustrating bullshit.
NY Times article

Posted 4 years ago #
drew

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Call me crazy, but I'd rather hear from the people who are truly potential nominees.

Posted 4 years ago #
wildgoose77
Not at all creative.
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You're not crazy. But I'm arguing that NBC should not be the one to determine who does or doesn't qualify as a potential nominee. That's an awful lot of power for one company to wield.

Posted 4 years ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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It wasn't one company; as you noted, the Democratic Party was fully behind the decision, and it wasn't to garner NBC's financial or media support in the general election. It was to maximize the amount of time that could be given to their serious contenders, which is even more important for the general election because the field is still crowded and there's a finite amount of time for the contenders to get their messages out.

Posted 4 years ago #
wildgoose77
Not at all creative.
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Four contenders is considered a "crowded field"?
It's more important to the general election to include dissenting and left wing voices in a televised debate. Otherwise you communicate to voters that you have three candidates with pretty much the same message and platform. The substantive differences between Clinton, Edwards, and Obama are minimal. At this point we're down to a personality contest.

Posted 4 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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I was very glad that all the contenders were allowed to debate early on, but I agree it's time for the vanity/single issue/no chance candidates to leave the field and leave more time in the debates. Kucinich doesn't have a realistic chance and he's had plenty of opportunity to talk about his policies. He'd do best to focus on his Congressional seat, which is hotly contested among Democrats this time around.

Posted 4 years ago #
enzo

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Kucinich is awesome and it makes me sad that the people with the most money backing them prevail--does not demonstrate integrity. I liked what Melissa Etheridge had to say Ã¢â‚¬Å“This just sent me over the top,Ã¢â‚¬Â the singer said. She was referring to Representative Dennis J. KucinichÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s exclusion from tonightÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Democratic debate, which is sponsored by ABC, WMUR-TV and Facebook.
Ã¢â‚¬Å“I think that this ABC debate is nothing but an infomercial now,Ã¢â‚¬Â she said. "
Read more here:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/etheridge-misses-kucinich/

Posted 4 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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enzo wrote Kucinich is awesome and it makes me sad that the people with the most money backing them prevail--does not demonstrate integrity.
That's not true, in a sense. Kucincich didn't have voter backing either. But on the Republican side: John McCain has hardly any money and the voters and media love him.

Posted 4 years ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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enzo wrote Kucinich is awesome and it makes me sad that the people with the most money backing them prevail--does not demonstrate integrity.
Part of the reason Obama and Clinton have more money backing them is that more people support them and more people consider them presidential material. That doesn't demonstrate any lack of integrity. It demonstrates that Kucinich's policies don't enjoy the kind of support in real life that they can appear to on the Internet.
The same can be said of Ron Paul on the Republican side, though at least he's raising a fair amount of money. A passionate online following simply doesn't translate into real-world viability. For a completely apolitical example, look at the Internet buzz about the movie Snakes on a Plane (which was not about Air Force One).

Posted 4 years ago #
Brewmaster
Portland, OR
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I'm convinced that Kucinich keeps making these goofy runs at the presidency in the interest of hanging on to his congressional seat. Think about it...
Every 4 years, people from all over the country who share his niche viewpoints send him checks. Once he pulls off a few publicity stunts on the national stage like suing NBC for breach of contract, he can take the unspent campagn money back to Cleveland and use it to get re-elected to his seat in Congress. It also makes not-so-smart voters in Cleveland look at a ballot and see one extremely recognizable name, and one completely unrecognizable name.
It's genious really.

Posted 4 years ago #
shroud
Polaris
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I thought it was just an excuse for him to parade around his attractive wife on national television... ;)

Posted 4 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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Brewmaster wrote I'm convinced that Kucinich keeps making these goofy runs at the presidency in the interest of hanging on to his congressional seat. Think about it...
Every 4 years, people from all over the country who share his niche viewpoints send him checks. Once he pulls off a few publicity stunts on the national stage like suing NBC for breach of contract, he can take the unspent campagn money back to Cleveland and use it to get re-elected to his seat in Congress. It also makes not-so-smart voters in Cleveland look at a ballot and see one extremely recognizable name, and one completely unrecognizable name.
It's genious really.
If you look at the Plain Dealer coverage this time around, he's not doing so well. People in Cleveland are pissed that he's puffing his ego spending his time with Sean Penn and in Hawaii instead of doing his job in Congress for the people of NE Ohio.

Posted 4 years ago #
ChrisSunami
King-Lincoln District
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I'm really sorry Kucinich was excluded. I think the presence of someone like that --or Ron Paul on the other side-- makes a more interesting and substantive debate by adding an honest voice. When you're not going to win anyway, you don't have to be terrified of opinion polls. Thus, a DK or RP can force a real dialogue into what is otherwise a wholly scripted and mechanical piece of theater.

Posted 4 years ago #
enzo

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^^yep

Posted 4 years ago #
Roland
Clintonville
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kitoba wrote I'm really sorry Kucinich was excluded. I think the presence of someone like that --or Ron Paul on the other side-- makes a more interesting and substantive debate by adding an honest voice. When you're not going to win anyway, you don't have to be terrified of opinion polls. Thus, a DK or RP can force a real dialogue into what is otherwise a wholly scripted and mechanical piece of theater.
Agreed. It serves to force some topics and discussion to the surface that would not be touched by candidates who will say whatever just to herd the most voters into their corner.

Posted 4 years ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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kitoba wrote I'm really sorry Kucinich was excluded. I think the presence of someone like that --or Ron Paul on the other side-- makes a more interesting and substantive debate by adding an honest voice. When you're not going to win anyway, you don't have to be terrified of opinion polls. Thus, a DK or RP can force a real dialogue into what is otherwise a wholly scripted and mechanical piece of theater.
No, it just become silly theatre. The other candidates are sophisticated enough to not respond and the indulgent antics of RP or DK get news time.
I do think both RP and DK should be excluded and it has nothing to do with money or their views. Simply put, there is not conceivable one thing either could say that would dissuade a supporter from voting for them and there is not one thing they could say that would gain a new voter for them as their views are well-documented and their responses are machine-predictable.
A.

Posted 4 years ago #
Brewmaster
Portland, OR
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Andrew Hall wrote as their views are well-documented and their responses are machine-predictable.
My wife and I were playing a game last night while watching the debate. We tried to guess the context of the response before the candidate answered it.
"Edwards is going with his 'son of a millworker' line here..."
..."YES!"
"Hillary is going to attack Bush and the Republicans with this one."
..."YES!"
At this point Obama is the only candidate with any variability to his responses, although they're roughly centered around inspiring people to act. Edwards has hit his ceiling with 10-15% of the vote with the union-driven populist messages, and Hillary does nothing but try to get focus groups to push their approval buttons.

Posted 4 years ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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shroud wrote I thought it was just an excuse for him to parade around his attractive wife on national television... ;)
She scares me. Reminds me too much of Bree on Desperate Housewives.
Roland wrote Agreed. It serves to force some topics and discussion to the surface that would not be touched by candidates who will say whatever just to herd the most voters into their corner.
No, I think Andrew Hall is right; all it does is make the debate into silly theatre, a.k.a. farce.
I think the Democratic management is also likely concerned about the effect that national overexposure to Kucinich would have on their brand name. There is simply no widespread enthusiasm for some of the more drastic and polarizing moves he proposes, most significantly impeaching Bush, Cheney, and basically everyone else associated with the Iraq war, and putting him on the same stage with the party's likely nominees risks tarnishing them with the image of the most radical loudmouth on stage.
When candidates debate, they are standard-bearers not only for themselves, but also for their parties, and their actions reflect on more than merely themselves.

Posted 4 years ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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shroud wrote I thought it was just an excuse for him to parade around his attractive wife on national television... ;)

Posted 4 years ago #
enzo

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:shock: She totally looks like Bree...

Posted 4 years ago #