Issue 1 - Should Ohio issue $200mm in debt to make cash payments to Iraq vets?

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Issue 1 - Should Ohio issue $200mm in debt to make cash payments to Iraq vets?

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Started 2 years ago by StowCbusCleveland
Latest reply from myliftkk

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DavidF
Elysium Fields
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Oh don't get me wrong. It's the wrong thing at the wrong time. I appreciate the gesture, I'd just rather not take on the debt.

Posted 2 years ago #
JonMyers
HCMC ✈
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If it's that insignificant and it's only .35% I demand they break me off a piece and get a check to me in the mail.

Amazing that a debt ridden state would seek to assume a federal function and incur more debt. There's no doubt that states are the most idiotic, inefficient mechanism to manage and deploy capital/ debt. Even worse than federal government.

Posted 2 years ago #
utnapishtim
Clintonville
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It is true that presently, ficial responsibility may trump the desire for implimenting a compensation fund for vets. However,in all fairness, saying that this is a federal issue is not true. Article 8, section 2 of the ohio constitution covers this: "In addition to the above limited power, the state may contract debts to repel invasion, suppress insurrection, defend the state in war, or to redeem the present outstanding indebtedness of the state". Compensation funds have been awarded to soldiers of every of every major conflict since world war one under amendments 2a,2b,2d,and 2j of article 8.

Posted 2 years ago #
spookygoddess78
Northland-ish
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utnapishtim wrote >>
It is true that presently, ficial responsibility may trump the desire for implimenting a compensation fund for vets. However,in all fairness, saying that this is a federal issue is not true. Article 8, section 2 of the ohio constitution covers this: "In addition to the above limited power, the state may contract debts to repel invasion, suppress insurrection, defend the state in war, or to redeem the present outstanding indebtedness of the state". Compensation funds have been awarded to soldiers of every of every major conflict since world war one under amendments 2a,2b,2d,and 2j of article 8.

This is great information and I'm glad you posted it. And I'm quite certain that my Ohio residing, 24 year old nephew who served 2 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan appreciates it also. Since his return to Ohio, he is unable to find work and is suffering from PTSD, meanwhile trying to support his family. I understand the concept of fiscal responsibility in these times, however, I don't know that voting against a small cash 'gift' to these vets is going to have a huge impact on the state debt/budget. But, it might have a significant impact on these families.

Posted 2 years ago #
utnapishtim
Clintonville
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It does require clarification, this debt isn't exactly an instant one, nor is it clearcut. The sold bonds cannot mature, if bought now, until december 31 2015 and will not be issued after 2013. The question of how much debt this will cause is further compounded by the fact that given the dept of VA's own 2007 estimates, there are only 179,173 resident Ohio veterans between the ages of 20 and 44. Now assuming that all of them will apply and that all have maximum eligibility, they still won't cause the maximum bond sale amount of 200,000,000 dollars to be reached. Bonds sales themselves are often prone to iffy numbers when it comes to the number of bonds which will be redeemed, although this this iffy factor is largely dependent on how many private buyers there are.

Posted 2 years ago #
Kirk

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As an OIF veteran who stands to benefit from the passage of this bill, I held my nose and voted for issue 1. I usually vote against increases to the budget but, this seemed different to me. The reason I voted for issue 1 was not so much that I need the money although I would be glad to have it, I have many friends that are vets that really do need it. I can promise you that at a one time payment of a thousand dollars the state is getting off cheap when you look at the courage, hard work, and sacrifice these men and women have demonstrated abroad. Many of you may not know that Ohio is incredibly well represented in our military. There is probably not a company in the active duty Army that doesn't have at least one Soldier from our state. Soldiers from our state bled to free others from the shackles of slavery and they are bleeding today to preserve your liberties. I follow these messageboards a lot, I don't often post but, one theme that I've noticed is that many of the people that seem to be against this issue because of it's cost have no problem justifying many other questionable uses of local, state, and federal funds. I don't question their patriotism but, what I will question is their priorities. You've chosen to put high-speed trains and bike paths before our veterans. Veterans be damned we need light rail and nice parks to walk our dogs in! Today I put my fellow vets first and those things second you should consider doing the same.

Posted 2 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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I think our country should support veterans. I just think cash bonuses are not a good way to do that and see some return on investment/economic multiplier at the same time. And with the state of our current Ohio budget, we need to create as much additional value with our investments as is possible. If the money were designated for improving VA clinics, I'd think differently. If that money were designated for improving transportation access for EVERYONE that would be even better.

Posted 2 years ago #
myliftkk
Columbus, OH
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Kirk wrote >>
As an OIF veteran who stands to benefit from the passage of this bill, I held my nose and voted for issue 1. I usually vote against increases to the budget but, this seemed different to me. The reason I voted for issue 1 was not so much that I need the money although I would be glad to have it, I have many friends that are vets that really do need it. I can promise you that at a one time payment of a thousand dollars the state is getting off cheap when you look at the courage, hard work, and sacrifice these men and women have demonstrated abroad. Many of you may not know that Ohio is incredibly well represented in our military. There is probably not a company in the active duty Army that doesn't have at least one Soldier from our state. Soldiers from our state bled to free others from the shackles of slavery and they are bleeding today to preserve your liberties. I follow these messageboards a lot, I don't often post but, one theme that I've noticed is that many of the people that seem to be against this issue because of it's cost have no problem justifying many other questionable uses of local, state, and federal funds. I don't question their patriotism but, what I will question is their priorities. You've chosen to put high-speed trains and bike paths before our veterans. Veterans be damned we need light rail and nice parks to walk our dogs in! Today I put my fellow vets first and those things second you should consider doing the same.

Unfortunately, most of the people against it based on the cost aren't accountants and don't read economic white papers written by reputable economists either. The multiplier effect for transfer of wealth to individuals can be higher than all other types of multiplier effects, as evidenced by EPI charts showing the effect of recent government outlays. To avoid being overly dry in econ-speak, if someone's simply opposed to the levy based on a gut reaction to some budget absorbing some fractional amount of debt over an extended period of years, they'd better check what they're ingesting, because those grumbling sounds are from swallowing too much economic know-nothingism (tastes good going down, but alas only really consists of empty calories). Given the current and massive unfunded liabilities of two continuing wars that people don't seem all that torn up about, it's farcical for anyone to oppose a miniscule thank you note to veterans on the basis of financial pseudo-reasoning.

I personally wish they would have come up with a more creative way to serve the veterans than a one-time cash payment (cost not being the issue, but thank you and be on your way is somewhat dismissive) given my personal knowledge of some Ohio veterans whose lives have been pretty much destroyed through their time in theatre and the subsequent fights with the DOD over ensuing disabilities. If this is the best they can offer on the ballot, I'll vote for it, but I wish they would have done better by those who volunteered.

Posted 2 years ago #