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If we're stuck with a casino, then...

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Started 2 years ago by Analogue Kid
Latest reply from cbusguy

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Analogue Kid
5th by West-Northwest
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...why not build it on the site of Cooper Stadium?

I'm no fan of the idea of a casino in the first place. That said, there is a lot of big money that will push for and probably get a Columbus casino regardless of any local opposition or referendum since it's written in the state constitution now. So with that in mind, why not put it someplace where it:

A. Won't harm a successful entertainment district
B. Won't require any meaningful infrastructure investments for handling crowds
C. Will provide better access and visibility with respect to a freeway
D. Would supplant a potentially more negative operation (racetrack) and thus prevent noise impacts on the surrounding area

Thoughts?

Posted 2 years ago #
surber17

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I'm down with that.

Posted 2 years ago #
Thory
Asheville, NC
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It's an established fact that the constitutional amendment simply permits the casinos. It does not require any of them to actually go up. This is not a "we have to allow the casino" situation. Grassroots and government momentum against the Columbus casino are building, anyway. No casino.

Posted 2 years ago #
colinpperkins

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Analogue Kid wrote >>
...why not build it on the site of Cooper Stadium?
I'm no fan of the idea of a casino in the first place. That said, there is a lot of big money that will push for and probably get a Columbus casino regardless of any local opposition or referendum since it's written in the state constitution now. So with that in mind, why not put it someplace where it:
A. Won't harm a successful entertainment district
B. Won't require any meaningful infrastructure investments for handling crowds
C. Will provide better access and visibility with respect to a freeway
D. Would supplant a potentially more negative operation (racetrack) and thus prevent noise impacts on the surrounding area
Thoughts?

I don't think there's anything that would motivate Penn National to agree to that. They want to be tied into a vibrant area where they can be seen an an entertainment destination. Nothing about the Cooper Stadium location says "entertainment destination" - as evidenced by people's hesitance to go there over the last decade. Although, the giant graveyard next door would be some sort of nice symbolism to represent something - people's bank accounts, hopes, dreams, etc.

Posted 2 years ago #
Kahiki

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This casino would probably do more harm in a lower income area. Let's stick it in New Albany.

Posted 2 years ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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1) We're not stuck with it. They don't have to build it.

2) The location is not up for debate. As thory said, the location is a part of the amendment.

Posted 2 years ago #
colinpperkins

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Thory wrote >>
It's an established fact that the constitutional amendment simply permits the casinos. It does not require any of them to actually go up. This is not a "we have to allow the casino" situation. Grassroots and government momentum against the Columbus casino are building, anyway. No casino.

I am all for grassroots. But ultimately it's going to take some sort of government intervention to prevent it. Penn National spent too much money in pursuit of this, and if they don't open the Columbus casino they are only left with one in Toledo - while Dan Gilbert gets Cleveland and Cincy.

Posted 2 years ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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colinpperkins wrote >>
I am all for grassroots. But ultimately it's going to take some sort of government intervention to prevent it.

You mean like at the city level or state level?

This casino is NOT getting built in Columbus.

Posted 2 years ago #
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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Walker wrote >>

colinpperkins wrote >>
I am all for grassroots. But ultimately it's going to take some sort of government intervention to prevent it.

You mean like at the city level or state level?
This casino is NOT getting built in Columbus.

Before comming to Columbus, I spent 4 years in Philly going through the EXACT same thing.

If it were up to the citizens at this point it would not get built. But it isn't.

Posted 2 years ago #
colinpperkins

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Walker wrote >>

colinpperkins wrote >>
I am all for grassroots. But ultimately it's going to take some sort of government intervention to prevent it.

You mean like at the city level or state level?
This casino is NOT getting built in Columbus.

I guess time will tell if these measures are actually legal paths to block it.

Let's just say I wouldn't be nervous about betting it will get built. I hope I'm wrong.

Posted 2 years ago #
colinpperkins

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Tenzo wrote >>

Walker wrote >>

colinpperkins wrote >>
I am all for grassroots. But ultimately it's going to take some sort of government intervention to prevent it.

You mean like at the city level or state level?
This casino is NOT getting built in Columbus.

Before comming to Columbus, I spent 4 years in Philly going through the EXACT same thing.
If it were up to the citizens at this point it would not get built. But it isn't.

In Philly I don't believe there was a vote on the casino that was to be built. The operators were just granted a license because the state already has legalized gaming. Is this correct?

Posted 2 years ago #
Coley
Highland West
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I find it interesting that yet again the West Side is the #1 choice for dumping on the undesirables despite being ignored and discounted most of the time. Much work is being done in regards to revitilzation efforts, please don't contribute to undermining them along with the politicians and their bureaucracies.

Posted 2 years ago #
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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colinpperkins wrote >>

Tenzo wrote >>

Walker wrote >>

colinpperkins wrote >>
I am all for grassroots. But ultimately it's going to take some sort of government intervention to prevent it.

You mean like at the city level or state level?
This casino is NOT getting built in Columbus.

Before comming to Columbus, I spent 4 years in Philly going through the EXACT same thing.
If it were up to the citizens at this point it would not get built. But it isn't.

In Philly there wasn't a vote on the casino that was to be built, correct? The operators were just granted a license because the state already has legalized gaming. Is this correct?

I can't remember if there was a populous vote or a state vote.
But in August of 2005 they decided they COULD build a casino in Philly. Not that they had to.

The majority of the Philly population was definitely against it.
Here is the latest thread: http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/forum/old-city-society-hill/5949-casinos.html

I would suggest reading it and taking notes. A lot of people lament that they used their energies fighting the casinos rather than working with them on the end design and concessions.

Posted 2 years ago #
colinpperkins

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Tenzo wrote
...A lot of people lament that they used their energies fighting the casinos rather than working with them on the end design and concessions.

Call this Devil's Advocate, but...

I know that Franklin county voted the casino down, but the state didn't - and that's really the idea of democracy. A lot of states didn't vote for Obama or Bush - but that doesn't entitle them to a separate President. They are part of a larger whole that voted in favor of something and must live with the decision of the whole.

I think it sucks that Franklin county doesn't want a casino and is getting one. But Ohio does want casinos - so shouldn't that take precedent? If you start breaking down voting blocks into smaller and smaller chunks with the power to supersede popular vote, then do individual cities or neighborhoods within Franklin county get to have their own say as well?

Posted 2 years ago #
Schoolboy
Columbus
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i'm worried that the same thing will happen here as it happened in phili
honestly, they've already changed the blueprints twice, i've seen both sets
the first was a pathetic excuse for a casino
the second is a much better plan
which tells me they are willing to alter their designs

it'd be nice to have a backup plan on this
instead of fully believing it won't happen, plan for the worst as well

Posted 2 years ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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Walker wrote >>

colinpperkins wrote >>
I am all for grassroots. But ultimately it's going to take some sort of government intervention to prevent it.

You mean like at the city level or state level?
This casino is NOT getting built in Columbus.

Those editorials may give cause for optimism, but politicians can either be bought off or steamrolled--even a governor's veto, if enough money gets thrown at the legislature, though that's one of the strongest barriers to overcome. Strickland won't be governor forever, though, and there's no telling what his successor's policy on casinos will be. In addition, the casino provision, for better or worse, is now a part of the Ohio constitution and therefore binding even on Strickland, much as I'm sure he's putting a great deal of effort into carving out some wiggle room.

Posted 2 years ago #
Thory
Asheville, NC
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Ohio does want casinos - so shouldn't that take precedent ?

The amendment called for permission of casinos in Cinci, Cleveland, Toledo, and Columbus, at specific addresses. By giving it this structure, Penn National gave all Ohio residents great economic incentive to approve a casino where they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t, I feel, have a right to permit it. This is just one of the problems I had with the amendment.

I would agree with you, colinpperkins, if the amendment had simply legalized gambling in Ohio. This is not the route Penn National took. Making the amendment locale-specific robbed much of its legitimacy in my mind. The people who live in the other corners of our state do not have the right to say whether and in what spot a casino will be built in our city.

This taps one of the big problems with Democracy Ã¢â‚¬â€œ tyranny of the majority. I'm not saying the casino situation is one of tyranny, but that's why the founders of the US set up electoral buffers - senators were originally elected by state reps, rather than directly by the people; electoral college. True democracy is mob rule (that is dangerous).

Posted 2 years ago #
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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True democracy is the idea that you can make a number larger by adding lots of zeros to it.

Posted 2 years ago #
colinpperkins

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Thory wrote >>
Ohio does want casinos - so shouldn't that take precedent ?
The amendment called for permission of casinos in Cinci, Cleveland, Toledo, and Columbus, at specific addresses. By giving it this structure, Penn National gave all Ohio residents great economic incentive to approve a casino where they donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t, I feel, have a right to permit it. This is just one of the problems I had with the amendment.
I would agree with you, colinpperkins, if the amendment had simply legalized gambling in Ohio. This is not the route Penn National took. Making the amendment locale-specific robbed much of its legitimacy in my mind. The people who live in the other corners of our state do not have the right to say whether and in what spot a casino will be built in our city.
This taps one of the big problems with Democracy Ã¢â‚¬â€œ tyranny of the majority. I'm not saying the casino situation is one of tyranny, but that's why the founders of the US set up electoral buffers - senators were originally elected by state reps, rather than directly by the people; electoral college. True democracy is mob rule (that is dangerous).

The problem is they DO have a right to permit it. If we are going to argue whether a person in bumfuck nowhere Ohio should be able to vote on something that impacts a totally different area, then I would agree that this is wrong. But it's the way it is. And, if you believe that the casinos will have a wholly positive impact on the state (which I don't) because of job creation and licensing fees and police training and all of the crap they threw around, then you would have a right to vote in favor of those things even if the casino was nowhere near you.

I totally agree that the amendment should have been just whether to allow or not allow gambling on a statewide level. Then the counties should have been at liberty to pursue proposals. No arguments there. But since it has already passed under the current democratic system we have, we should now rely on those electoral buffers to work on our behalf.

Posted 2 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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I think this whole "failure of democracy" thing is a dead end. When we passed the smoking ban a few years ago, people who were unemployed or worked from home got to vote, even though the consequences wouldn't affect them directly. When we passed the gay marriage ban, people who chose to stay single got to vote, even though the consequences wouldn't affect them directly. Enough whining over spilled milk.

The best path to take is to either support a new amendment that gets Columbus off the hook for a casino or to work legislatively however we can to create an out-clause.

Posted 2 years ago #