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YouTubesurber17 said:
I'm a little confused, who is E.W. High Street?
They are a finance company listed as being in the same office as Elford, probably just an LLC to insulate the project.
My guess is it is code for "Elford Wagenbrenner - High Street"
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Development
The Hubbard Apartments (Former Site of Ibiza Condos) - News & Updates
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futureman
Grandview Heights
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Ibiza payback offers half on deposits, more to lender
Date: Friday, December 2, 2011, 6:00am EST - Last Modified: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 4:23pm ESTThose who lined up to buy condominiums at the planned Ibiza tower in the Short North before the project collapsed may get back half their deposits under a reorganization plan filed for the failed development. Meanwhile, the Finance Fund , which was the lender on the project, could see 75 percent of its allowed claim paid.
But the repayment plan filed by Apex Realty Enterprises LLC, the debtor on the Ibiza project, rests on the $4.7 million sale of the vacant property to a development partnership of Elford Development Ltd. and Wagenbrenner Development Inc.
Also, they have an updated picture of "The Hubbard". IMO it looks a lot better than previous designs.
Posted 5 months ago # -
cbus11
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It seems better than nothing. A lot of people really do not appreciate the risks and expenses involved in buying a condominium. As a housing model there are many pitfalls, even when already constructed. I am very glad that most developers have switched to apartments as an economic necessity.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Mercurius
First Avenue
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11-9-17
830 North High Street/26 East Hubbard Avenue
E.W. High Street, LLC (Applicant) Apex Realty Enterprises, LLC (Owner)
An application, site plan, and drawings have been submitted. The proposed project was conceptually reviewed at the
September 20 IVC hearing. Revised drawings have been submitted to address Commission comments.
New Construction
• Construct new five (5) story commercial/residential building and four (4) story parking garage, per the submitted
plans.
• First floor includes 18,002 square feet of retail space.
• Second through fifth floors include sixty-eight residential (68) units.
• Four-story parking garage to include 322 +/- parking spaces, screened by four (4) townhome units along the south
side/East Hubbard Avenue.Posted 5 months ago # -
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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The Hubbard Apartments to Rise Over The Short North
By: Walker
The northeast corner of Hubbard Avenue and High Street has been one of the most widely discussed plots of land here on Columbus Underground over the past five years. Originally proposed in 2006 as the home of the failed Ibiza condo development, the site is going through a change of ownership where local development firms Elford and Wagenbrenner are jointly working on a revised plan for the neighborhood. The Hubbard will be a five-story mixed-use apartment building with ground-floor retail and a public parking garage located in the back.
READ MORE: http://www.columbusunderground.com/the-hubbard-apartments-to-rise-over-the-short-northPosted 5 months ago # -
monadnock
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And this is all more bullshit because...
The Ohio Department of Commerce, Division of Securities has issued a report of it's findings in the Ibiza fraud. https://www.comapps.ohio.gov/secu/secu_apps/FinalOrders/Files/2012/12-002%20Apex%20Realty%20et%20al%20NOH.pdf
The fraud dates back well before Ibiza was even an architectural drawing.
Basically, Rajesh and the gang are using various developers as delay and cover in their scam. It ain't never gonna happen folks.
Now, for the first time, a government agency has weighed in. Sorry everyone... You'll have to wait until after the fire sale for a developer to come in on this one. As long as it's attached to the Apex gang this ship is sunk. No one in their right mind is going to want to get involved.
Posted 3 months ago # -
columbusmike
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monadnock said:
And this is all more bullshit because...The Ohio Department of Commerce, Division of Securities has issued a report of it's findings in the Ibiza fraud. https://www.comapps.ohio.gov/secu/secu_apps/FinalOrders/Files/2012/12-002%20Apex%20Realty%20et%20al%20NOH.pdf
The fraud dates back well before Ibiza was even an architectural drawing.
Basically, Rajesh and the gang are using various developers as delay and cover in their scam. It ain't never gonna happen folks.
Now, for the first time, a government agency has weighed in. Sorry everyone... You'll have to wait until after the fire sale for a developer to come in on this one. As long as it's attached to the Apex gang this ship is sunk. No one in their right mind is going to want to get involved.
What is your reasoning? I didn't take the time scour thru all the legal mumbo jumbo (nor could I ever fully understand it), but I don't know why this would prevent the transfer of the property? Can you explain?
Posted 3 months ago # -
monadnock
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Oh... owe... the mumbo jumbo ain't that hard in this document. The references to laws can be glossed over.
here's how it goes. Basic rule of human behavior. Judge the future behavior by the past behavior. Apex wants a payout. They're staying attached to this thing and have had developer after developer lined up and then they themselves either reject the payoff because it's not enough or the developer realizes who they're dealing with and runs away screaming.
This latest case, the developer's deal is contingent on the Apex bankruptcy. This document is a cease and desist order. Meaning, since Apex can't cease and desist from past allegations of fraud, the only thing currently pending that the report mentions is the bankruptcy. The bankruptcy plan has fraudulent elements as identified by the Department of Commerce's Division of Securities.
There it is. All spelled out. Please. I have faith in you. Read the document. you'll understand it. I don't like being the one doing all the thinky around here. I actually WANT people to develop their own conclusions and think critically. READ the government document. Formulate your own opinion!
Posted 3 months ago # -
Snarf
Dystopia
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monadnock said:
Oh... owe... the mumbo jumbo ain't that hard in this document. The references to laws can be glossed over.here's how it goes. Basic rule of human behavior. Judge the future behavior by the past behavior. Apex wants a payout. They're staying attached to this thing and have had developer after developer lined up and then they themselves either reject the payoff because it's not enough or the developer realizes who they're dealing with and runs away screaming.
This latest case, the developer's deal is contingent on the Apex bankruptcy. This document is a cease and desist order. Meaning, since Apex can't cease and desist from past allegations of fraud, the only thing currently pending that the report mentions is the bankruptcy. The bankruptcy plan has fraudulent elements as identified by the Department of Commerce's Division of Securities.
There it is. All spelled out. Please. I have faith in you. Read the document. you'll understand it. I don't like being the one doing all the thinky around here. I actually WANT people to develop their own conclusions and think critically. READ the government document. Formulate your own opinion!
After reading this post I've concluded I can make a doodie in the big boy potty.
Posted 3 months ago # -
monadnock
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Reading more of this thread and realizing how strangely gaga people go over conceptual drawings. There's a hell of a lot between a painting and a building. I guess it's fun to get worked up but I think people are completely vested in the veneer.
Maybe the lot can be paved for now. Simply a parking lot would be more utilitarian. I've seen land held across Ohio as golf courses that generate some profit for somebody. It's the city. We all know we need parking. Let's put the paintings aside for now and make a parking lot! THAT would at least be something "concrete" and honest to come of the space. Oh, but therein lies the rub. Apex can't be honest!
Posted 3 months ago # -
columbusmike
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monadnock said:
Reading more of this thread and realizing how strangely gaga people go over conceptual drawings. There's a hell of a lot between a painting and a building. I guess it's fun to get worked up but I think people are completely vested in the veneer.Maybe the lot can be paved for now. Simply a parking lot would be more utilitarian. I've seen land held across Ohio as golf courses that generate some profit for somebody. It's the city. We all know we need parking. Let's put the paintings aside for now and make a parking lot! THAT would at least be something "concrete" and honest to come of the space. Oh, but therein lies the rub. Apex can't be honest!
I can't decide if you're promoting a parking lot with a lot of babble or just babbling.
Posted 3 months ago # -
monadnock
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Hey, I'm pissed at Apex, that comes through. But jesh! I really just want people to look at some primary source data instead of defending a bunch of propaganda!
Frustrating how people defend some pastel paintings like this! Totally a page from Machiavelli what's going on here. Bad guys totally playing everyone for years now!
Posted 3 months ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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monadnock, I'm a commercial bankruptcy and restructuring attorney, and I still can't make any sense of whatever it is that you're saying.
An innocent third-party purchaser of assets of a bankrupt company does not need to assume the liabilities of the bankrupt, and indeed, seldom does. This applies even to ordinary commercial debts that are frequently part of corporate asset sales outside of bankruptcy; bankruptcy courts have the power to authorize sales of assets completely free of liens, claims and encumbrances. (The liens, claims, and encumbrances transfer to the proceeds of the sale, so creditors get to divvy up the cash that comes in but do not get to chase after the new owner for the debts of the old owner, which were presumptively unsustainably high.)
Therefore, it is entirely possible that a purchaser could buy the real estate and other valuable rights of Apex and leave the bankruptcy court and the creditors of the old company to sort out the mess (which could take years) while the new owners get moving with their development of the site normally.
The linked document you posted regards alleged improprieties by the principals of Apex in selling securities under Ohio state securities law. In particular, it is alleged that they failed to properly register the securities offering for investment units in the business/development, and that they improperly repaid themselves for the full value of their own principal investments using the money prepaid by other buyers (effectively cashing themselves out for their own investments before any units were even built). That intended use of prepaid purchase prices was not disclosed to purchasers. That could certainly land the principals in hot water.
There is nothing in that document, however, that suggests that the problems of the company officers follow the company assets (and the bankruptcy court in almost all cases has the power to make sure that no such thing happens, because they want to encourage high bids at bankruptcy auctions, which you wouldn't get if the old company's problems became those of the new owners).
Therefore, I have no idea what you mean by "They're staying attached to this thing," and as for "Apex wants a payout," what I'm guessing is really going on here is that Apex' creditors want a payout--which is, of course, part of the entire point of bankruptcy proceedings (particularly ones in which the effective reorganization of the debtor corporation seems like an unlikely possibility).
Posted 3 months ago # -
monadnock
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Thank you Gramarye. Futureman posted this a while back in the thread... http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/print-edition/2011/12/02/ibiza-payback-offers-half-on-deposits.html
Apex has the new developer structured into the bankruptcy plan. So, as it stands, for now, the new developer is hooked in with the mess. That's where that bit comes from.
Bankruptcy plans can and do change I guess. So the initial draft can be kicked back. I have no idea what the final straw could be to deny a bankruptcy. Do you? I mean what would have to happen for the bankruptcy court to simply throw out the bankruptcy all together? Can that happen? What would that course of action lead to?
IMO for the rest of you, until Apex is out, completely out, the lot is going to be vacant and a water color pipe dream.
Posted 3 months ago # -
monadnock
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Also, Granmarye, what then is the Division of Securities asking Apex to cease and desist from? I mean truly, the securities fraud is milk spilt years ago. That seems like an awfully mushy order. I take it to mean they're referring to the current structure of bankruptcy proceedings. Again, back to... What would it take/can the court throw out the whole bankruptcy, what happens then? Can the court pull the property from Apex and sell it off without Apex's approval? Who can MAKE that happen?
Posted 3 months ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
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Apex has the new developer structured into the bankruptcy plan, but that doesn't change anything about what I wrote.
There are three principal ways a chapter 11 debtor can divest itself of substantially all of its assets (i.e., liquidate). The first is through a court-approved asset sale, the second is through a court-approved plan of liquidation or reorganization, and the third is through conversion to a chapter 7 case. (The last of these is generally considered a failure by chapter 11 professionals, because the company could have saved a lot of headache and simply filed a chapter 7 bankruptcy in the first place, but it gets the job done when there's nothing left to do but liquidate whatever's lying around and turn off the lights.)
In each of those cases, the court has the authority to approve the sale of assets free and clear of liens, claims, and encumbrances.
The deal with Elford & Wagenbrenner's new joint venture is part of the bankruptcy plan for a very simple and mundane reason: The company doesn't have the cash to fund those distributions without selling the property. Sight unseen, I can take a few educated guesses as to how this plan is structured: (1) the proceeds of the sale will never go into any account under the control of the principals of the debtor, given the cloud over them due to the securities investigation by the state and the fraud allegations by private plaintiffs; (2) the sale will be authorized free of liens, claims, and encumbrances, so Elford & Wagenbrenner will not need to care about what happened between the company, its principals, and its other investors and depositors; (3) Elford & Wagenbrenner will get a comprehensive release from both the debtor and from the creditors (not that any creditors were likely to have claims against them anyway); and (4) the principals of the debtor will not get a release, meaning that they will be exposed to preference and fraudulent transfer actions later (in addition to the existing state law fraud claims that it appears are now being heard by the bankruptcy judge).
I really don't know the specifics of the Apex case. What I do know, however, is that the Bankruptcy Code is specifically designed to avoid the situation you're describing (in which people are hesitant to do a deal because of the legal or financial shape of the entity that they're dealing with, or of its directors and officers).
Posted 3 months ago # -
monadnock
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Gramarye THANK YOU! This is what I wanted. Something thought out well considered.
I've always viewed Apex as an unruly bully and I can't understand why some government mechanism doesn't just act as the adult in the room and take the ball (in this case the property) from them and pass it off to the other kids willing to play fair. It's like I keep thinking surly this latest finding will cause such a thing to happen! Then the shenanigans continue and I keep waiting. You're explanation gives me confidence that the bankruptcy court is where this will happen and that it has mechanisms for this to happen already in place.
Thank you for reading the primary source document. Everyone primary source material is important! It's the horses mouth! Read it!
Posted 3 months ago #
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