alove
Downtown
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- What's the current status on the starter line?
- What are things I can do to further support the streetcar system? I have no idea how to view public meetings. I would like to attend everyone from now on :)
In addition to all the benefits, streetcars would fit in so well with columbus. They would add to our city's offbeat, midwest meets west coast vibe. And c'mon, you know they're sexy... ;P
Core_Models
Columbus
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-dead.
-move.
Sorry to sound so bitter, btw, but that's a sore spot for me. As far as I know, the starter line is no longer a conversation really being had in Columbus.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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I think "dead" is a little misleading. I'd say that the plans are "shelved" or on the backburner. It's not like all of the data has been thrown out and documents shredded.
Ultimately, they were delayed because the Mayor didn't want to push the plans during his relection campaign in 2008, and then didn't want to push the plans during the budget woes of 2009. I can't say that I blame him, but at the same time I think I'd respect him more if he would have continued to push and we had construction rolling this year.
Otherwise, there's not a whole lot that can be done to support right now. As far as I'm aware, there are no public meetings on the topic. You could show up to City Council to speak publicly for your support, but I don't think it would really make a huge difference at this point without any leadership steering the project.
rory
NW Short North
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johnwirtz wrote >>
alove wrote >>
- What are things I can do to further support the streetcar system?Do you have or can you raise $100 Million?
Subscription time? There was a lower league soccer team in England a year or so ago that fantasy soccer nuts bought by throwing in $75 bucks each.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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rory wrote >>
johnwirtz wrote >>
alove wrote >>
- What are things I can do to further support the streetcar system?Do you have or can you raise $100 Million?
Subscription time? There was a lower league soccer team in England a year or so ago that fantasy soccer nuts bought by throwing in $75 bucks each.
Heh. Do you know 1.3 million people willing to kick in $75 each? ;)
Columbusite
Minneapolis
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Well, one's a start.
jpizzow
580 N. Park St.
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I find it disturbing and embarassing that almost every major city is building or is planning streetcars and/or light rail and Columbus isn't even talking about it. I mean there isn't even a whisper.
I would personally ride a streetcar almost every day to get to class and to do various other things. Practically every one of my friends have expressed desire for such a system. It's an issue that has been brought up in several of my classes. Many of the students from other large cities don't seem to understand why we don't have streetcars or light rail. It's a "big city amenity" to them and the lack of it almost seems to perplex them. I get a sense of embarassment for the city that will be home to them over the next couple of years and hopefully then try and retain them. I read comments all the time in local blogs, forums and comment sections of people who desire such systems. It's one of the things I wish for the most for Columbus and it is something that alot of people want. It's an issue of sustainability, choice, efficient people moving and economic development. I believe in the concept and hope city leaders can be a little more progressive on this front in the very near future.
Hey Walker. Where do I send my $75.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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jpizzow wrote >>
Hey Walker. Where do I send my $75.
Heh. When the streetcar project was somewhat hot and heavy in 2007/2008 I actually tossed around the idea of creating a nonprofit support group that would allow people to "pre-register" for the Streetcar. The idea wasn't just for people to throw money at it, but to purchase an annual pass at a discounted rate up front. Sort of like a reward for early adopters. Or sort of like how Skybus sold their first 10 tickets on each flight for $10 (although that's not a very good example anymore).
I met with several of the folks on the Streetcar Working Group, and they all loved the idea, but didn't have pricing structured yet (there were some guesstimates of pricing it around $1/ride) nor could they guarantee that far out that passes could be honored for that advanced discounted pricing structure.
My goal was to get around 1000 people to commit early with $100 each and wave the giant "We have raised $100,000 and promised that these 1000 people will ride regularly" flag. More as an attention getter than anything else, since that's still only 0.1% of the estimated project cost.
In the end, I didn't have the time or resources to commit to doing something like this anyway. And I'm kind of glad I didn't, since we would have had to just issue a whole bunch of refunds.
Perhaps the idea could resurface down the road whenever the project moves back to the frontburner.
agtw31
columbus
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Walker wrote >>
Perhaps the idea could resurface down the road whenever the project moves back to the frontburner.
\
i like the street car idea,but light rail is smarter.
it moves the whole city.
streetcars only benefit a small part of this city
also,im sick of those frigging orange barrels
CbusIslander
Cbus Islander
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jpizzow wrote >>
I find it disturbing and embarassing that almost every major city is building or is planning streetcars and/or light rail and Columbus isn't even talking about it. I mean there isn't even a whisper.
I am hoping (fingers crossed) that if the 3C project gets the federal funding in the next month or so then that announcement would add the fuel needing to relaunch the streetcar topic. . .
The whole "how do we get people around town once the 3c train arrives in town" topic.
I believe federal funding towards streetcar projects needs to happen to get many proposals off the ground nationally. The ones that are opening now broke ground well before the credit / economic crunch. That being said if a streetcar advocacy group existed when the columbus streetcar topic first came up from the mayor in '02? then I believe high st. would look different today.
rant: If the casino gets relocated to the west side then I recommend that Stand Up Columbus renames themselves to Rail Up Columbus and persue this issue :rant
michaelcoyote
!seabus
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jpizzow wrote >>
I find it disturbing and embarassing that almost every major city is building or is planning streetcars and/or light rail and Columbus isn't even talking about it. I mean there isn't even a whisper.
A streetcar doesn't excite me very much at all, for reasons I've gone into ad infinitum in other threads. I'm guessing that most people here in Columbus wouldn't use it very much at all (excepting possibly special events). I don't mind building something that mostly convention goers would use, but it's probably not going to sell the idea very well at all, especially if you live... say in the near east side and need to get to JPMC up in Polaris every day.
On the other hand, a well chosen light rail start here in Columbus would probably get people more interested, just from the standpoint of being able to commute to a job or go to dinner in the city on a weekend without even thinking about parking.
Frankly I think the streetcar died because most people realized that it likely wouldn't really ave the effect that was advertised.
A combo type project could work (street level along part of High and then stations further out), but would make things harder for commuters trying to quickly get to work in the morning and home at night.
Core_Models
Columbus
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1. I think the streetcar as development tool absolutely would work.
2. I think it would get a lot of use.
3. I don't think anyone on the planet supporting a streetcar wouldn't rather have comprehensive light rail, but I think that will/would be an even harder sell than the streetcar as starter line.
End of the day, I think anything rail other than the 3C are completely off the radar for city officials at this point and don't expect to see action on it again any time soon. My hope is that the 3C comes in, and people are shown in the most explicit ways possible how successful rail can be...and then everything else comes back on the table.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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agtw31 wrote >>
i like the street car idea,but light rail is smarter. it moves the whole city. streetcars only benefit a small part of this city.
I think that both can serve a specific purpose, and a specific population, so I don't know if I'd call one "smarter" than the other. Personally, I'd love to see a fully comprehensive network of buses, streetcars, intracity light rail, and intercity commuter rail. The big question is "where do we start"?
That I think was one of the biggest pros to the Streetcar plan. A $100M startup line from OSU to Downtown provides a big enough starter line to be valuable to one of our most densely populated areas and still clock in at 1/10th of the pricetag projected for a $1B light rail line connecting Crosswoods (not even Polaris) to Downtown.
At the same time, one of the biggest cons to the Streetcar plan was that it didn't explain what the next steps would be. It's hard to convince people to take the first step when steps two through ten are left up to their imagination. Would the streetcar be followed up by a second E-W line? Would it get extended to German Village? Would light rail come next? These are extremely important questions that were never answered. I think that's one of the biggest reasons that public support was so weak.
If we do end up getting a Polaris-Downtown Light Rail line first, I'd be perfectly happy with that as a step one as well. I'm just reluctant to think that most people will be eager to transfer to a bus at Broad & High to reach their final destination.
michaelcoyote wrote >>
Frankly I think the streetcar died because most people realized that it likely wouldn't really ave the effect that was advertised.
I think the streetcar "died" because the administration backed off. Plain and simple.
Columbusite
Minneapolis
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Streetcars bring development within 1/4 mile along their entire length, but are best for short distances.
Light-rail brings development around their stations, not in-between and are best for longer distances.
Commuter-rail is similar to light-rail, but uses pre-existng tracks and older trains which makes it cheaper, IIRC.
Columbus is a DIY kind of city and that includes transportation. I came to terms with that and embraced it by choosing an alternative to the car and weened myself off of it. If I had the know-how I did then I would have been able to be 99% dependent on my bike for transportation in one day. If that's not your thing there are other options including scooters, even COTA if you live near one of the major routes. Oh, and how could I forget walking also. I'd rather the city make it safer for all kinds of DIY transportation all over the urban core than to take forever to get just one streetcar line up.
cc
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I 100% agree with what Columbusite has said. Personally, I think we count too much on citywide initiatives* like streetcars or commuter rail for personal transportation when we can make a difference today by putting on our big boy pants and doing something about it. Walking isn't that hard. Cota isn't that scary and most of us learned to ride a bike by the time we were seven.
*which do not fit everyone
alove
Downtown
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Thanks for the update.
Seems to me we need to give it some more time. Once more development along High St is done, it will attract even more business and residents downtown and the surrounding areas. I have high hopes for streetcars/light rail later down the road, hopefully not too far.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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cc wrote >>
Personally, I think we count too much on citywide initiatives (which do not fit everyone) like streetcars or commuter rail for personal transportation when we can make a difference today by putting on our big boy pants and doing something about it. Walking isn't that hard. Cota isn't that scary and most of us learned to ride a bike by the time we were seven.
I agree that good alternatives to driving exist today, and I'm a huge proponent of people not sitting around and "waiting" for rail to happen. I typically ride COTA 4-5 days per week, and I'm perfectly happy with how it serves me.
But I'd hesitate to negatively label rail as a "citywide initiative that does not fit everyone" since roads and highways are the exact same thing. We all collectively pay for roads, whether we use all of them or not. I don't think rail development should be looked at any differently.
Columbuzz
Grandview
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Walker wrote >> But I'd hesitate to negatively label rail as a "citywide initiative that does not fit everyone" since roads and highways are the exact same thing. We all collectively pay for roads, whether we use all of them or not. I don't think rail development should be looked at any differently.
That just brought up a thought... if 3C happens, light rail happens, and/or a streetcar happens, has anyone proposed where we come up with the money we will lose from gas taxes?
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