I got a traffic ticket, any ideas on how to beat it? « Columbus Underground Messageboard

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I got a traffic ticket, any ideas on how to beat it?

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Started 2 years ago by StowCbusCleveland
Latest reply from lifeliberty

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StowCbusCleveland
Jackson Township, Canton, OH
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Hey guys, I thought I'd see if I could enlist the expertise of the crowd for any good ideas on coming out of a traffic citation with a dropped case or a not guilty.

My citation was for "Failure to Yield to a Stationary Public Safety Vehicle" aka the "Move Over" law (ORC 4511.213). Coming north through Madison County on 71, where the highway is 2 lanes each direction, I was in the right-most lane when I saw a trooper in the middle of a traffic stop with lights on up ahead. The law dictates that you either get over to a non-adjacent lane or if that would be unsafe, you slow down to a safe speed. I'm a pretty cautious driver, so I was already only going 62 and getting passed by traffic to my left. Given the traffic back and to my left and gaining on me, I opted to slow down, getting down to 45 (and falling) as I passed the trooper. I also moved to the left-most portion of my lane just to add as much distance as possible. He felt this was not good enough, and he cited me. He pulled me over via hand signal (pointing at me and then to the side of the road. He was outside his car and standing nearly on the shoulder when he did this). As such, he has no evidence of my speed and presumably was going on his gut. My girlfriend was in the passenger seat and will be available to support with testimony what actually happened.

I think I pretty clearly followed the law both in letter and the spirit of protecting officers on the street. Anybody have any ideas on making this come out in my favor? On the facts, I know I followed the law but I'm wary of relying on putting my word up against the trooper's and putting it in one person's hands. Outside of telling my story and hoping, do you guys have any ideas? Any idea of what my odds are?

Posted 2 years ago #
misskitty
Columbus
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Why did you stop? Lol just kidding

Well he canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t prove the speed and you seem to have tried to go in favor with the law. As long as there was no way possible for you to get in the other lane.
I would fight it to have it dropped all together Or try for a lowered ticket without points (if any). If you choose to try and have it dropped all the way you will most likely have to come back when the officer is there. If you just want the amount lowered you can take care of that the first day you go to court. But if you choose to accept a lower amount your insurance will most likely take notice. If all else fails and it is a hefty fine you can ask the judge for a payment plan and they usually comply.
I always say itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a 50/50 in court. Everything is negotiable remember to be nice to the prosecutor you check in with. I am not a lawyer but my track record for beating tickets is 90/10 me.
good luck

Posted 2 years ago #
Patch
Schumacher Place
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misskitty wrote >>
Everything is negotiable remember to be nice to the prosecutor you check in with. I am not a lawyer but my track record for beating tickets is 90/10 me.
good luck

As misskitty wrote, if you show up in court, the prosecutor is normally more than willing to drop all charges in return for you paying court costs (which you will have to pay either way).

Definitely worth the time to go to court a few times in order to keep the ticket off your record.

Posted 2 years ago #
lifeliberty
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show up definitely. possibly even lawyer up. I'm not sure how many points are associated with that offense, but it can jack you insurance rates up for years. keep your record clean. I'm not saying don't break the law, I'm saying lawyer up and keep your record clean. Drive safe!

Police and troopers are not there to interpret the law. they just enforce it. They can basically give you a ticket for anything, then you get your day in court to explain the situation to a judge who can interpret the situation and make a ruling. always take the ticket with a smile, no need to get in the officers face like some morons do. then go to court and explain the situation.

Unfortunately, it can be a money game, so your wallet is the one that normally is left on the hook.

Posted 2 years ago #
Bear
The woods
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And dress nicely. I don't mean dress up for a big night out, but show proper respect for the Court.

Posted 2 years ago #
lifeliberty
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agreed. i actually think appearance, at least in my situations, accounted for at least 70% of the positive ruling. I think most times I'm in court I am the only one wearing a button down shirt with a collar. Yeah, you will look out of place, but in a great way. last time I was in for a traffic ticket the judged was offering advice on how I should handle the ticket to get out of it. (I wanted to plead no contest so I didn't have to return) judge ended suspending fines ad I just paid court costs.

and be clean shaven, brush your teeth, comb your hair, etc etc

Posted 2 years ago #
StowCbusCleveland
Jackson Township, Canton, OH
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Thanks for the advice guys. A few thoughts:

-I've already drafted my statement for court, partially just so I can remember the facts of what happened. About court: How nice to dress? My instinct was just to wear a suit because that's what I figured you wear to court, but the idea that a collared shirt with buttons might make you out of place to begin with makes me think that might be overkill?

-How messed up is it that my best case scenario might be paying court costs, even if I get everything to break my way? What kind of justice system requires someone who is wrongly accused to pay for the privilege of justice? C'est la vie, but still...

-I've been surprised by the number of people who told me they would never have stopped for a hand-signal and would have blown past. The thought never even occurred to me, but I'd say at least a 1/3 of my friends had the initial reaction of "You stopped for that? He'd never have caught you..."

-What do you think of the idea of trying to meet with either the trooper or prosecutor ahead of time? I've seen a few places advocate this, but it seemed too easy. "Just set up a meeting with the prosecutor about a traffic ticket and explain it isn't your fault!"

Posted 2 years ago #
StowCbusCleveland
Jackson Township, Canton, OH
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Also, I just checked the court's schedule for my day...holy cow! They have 84 of us scheduled for 8:30am. How long does this stuff take? I know many of them will simply pay the ticket and not need to appear, but damn.

Posted 2 years ago #
10sun
Columbus, OH
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Burden of proof is on the officer.

You were driving slow enough & with enough caution being paid to him that you could see his hand signals.

Posted 2 years ago #
Redlegs1990

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I am an attorney who appears in that court a lot. While the burden of proof is on the officer, when it comes down to what the officer believes is safe, and what you believe was safe, the court will almost always defer to the officers judgment.

The prosecutor will not bend on this. This particular prosecutor is the former head of the State Trooper Academy, and he is not prone to making deals. You will have an opportunity to speak with him prior to 8:30 that day, and much of what he is willing to do will be based on the opinion of the officer. If the officer felt you were being unsafe enough to pull you over, it is not likely he will have softened his heart enough to let you off the hook.

If your court time is 8:30 on a Tuesday, be prepared to sit in the courtroom for up to two hours. If you want a trial you will be called last, in order to get everyone else off the docket.

Posted 2 years ago #
misskitty
Columbus
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StowCbusCleveland wrote >>
Also, I just checked the court's schedule for my day...holy cow! They have 84 of us scheduled for 8:30am. How long does this stuff take? I know many of them will simply pay the ticket and not need to appear, but damn.

It does take a good chunk of time to attend traffic court. If you are there anyway may as well make it people watching time. You will learn real quick how not to look in court and what not to say. You would think someone in there for a ticket would be courteous or nice. Wrong some of those people are just strait assholes to the prosecutor . Fail!

Posted 2 years ago #
lifeliberty
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a suit can be overkill unless you are on your way to work. dress pants, dress shoes and long sleeved button down with a collar will be more than anyone else is wearing most times(cept the lawyers). Dress conservative, not flashy. If they judge can relate to you as one of his/her sons the better.

and as for the officer's judgement, if you had an empty space to your left then you should have gotten left, no matter how fast you are going.

I've had freinds get hit by cars while changing tires on the side of the highway. Officer safety is a priority being that their jobs are as dangerous as they are. Unless you have a car to your left you are supposed to move left. If there is a car there then you slow down.

Posted 2 years ago #
Patch
Schumacher Place
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StowCbusCleveland wrote >>
Also, I just checked the court's schedule for my day...holy cow! They have 84 of us scheduled for 8:30am. How long does this stuff take? I know many of them will simply pay the ticket and not need to appear, but damn.

Are you going to the Franklin County Courts?

If so, your first appearance won't truly be in front of a Judge, but just giving how you are going to plea. You fill out a piece of paperwork letting them know you are there, and then they call you up to the front to give your plea. You shouldn't be there more than 15 minutes.

From there they will assign you a date to go in front of the Judge for your case, and let the officer know that he needs to show up. Again, you need to sign in (this time with the prosecutor's rep). They will pull your files, and this is the time that they will want to negotiate so they save the Judge's time.

Posted 2 years ago #
groundrules

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lifeliberty wrote >>

I've had freinds get hit by cars while changing tires on the side of the highway.

Really? more than one? weird.

lifeliberty wrote >> If there is a car there then you slow down.

sounds like he did, and that's kinda the crux.

Posted 2 years ago #
lifeliberty
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one friend got hit on 76 in Akron, it screwed up his back. I'm not sure about my other friend(where, how)

From they way I understood what OP wrote was that he didn't want to get over because other traffic was moving up fast, not that that there was another car there at the moment.

StowCbusCleveland wrote >>
Given the traffic back and to my left and gaining on me, I opted to slow down,

Posted 2 years ago #
misskitty
Columbus
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Yea I would just clearly state that you know the laws when it comes to emergency vehicles on the side of the road and you did what the law stated should be done in that situation to the best of your ablity.

Posted 2 years ago #
pyrowolf

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While this may not apply as there really isn't a speed involved as your situation is a judgment call for the officer, there's a little loophole in the law that allows an officer to cite you for speed/speeding even if he didn't have a radar gun as long as he/she has had the appropriate "visual estimation of speed and distance" training and testing.

I've always found it funny that the courts spent a lot of time on very specific language around how often a speed measuring device is tuned, when the last time it was serviced, the specific conditions when the device was used, etc. yet they've left in a loophole that allows an officer to just use their eyes in the end.

Good luck!

Posted 2 years ago #
LBOWACC

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Ya, why did you stop? That is just nuts. I remember maybe 6 years ago or so i was pulling out of frambes onto high, and at the udf there who 2 bike cops who were signaling for me to pull over. i just took off, and they gave chase for a second, but to no avail.

Posted 2 years ago #
StowCbusCleveland
Jackson Township, Canton, OH
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Redlegs1990 wrote >>
I am an attorney who appears in that court a lot. While the burden of proof is on the officer, when it comes down to what the officer believes is safe, and what you believe was safe, the court will almost always defer to the officers judgment.
The prosecutor will not bend on this. This particular prosecutor is the former head of the State Trooper Academy, and he is not prone to making deals. You will have an opportunity to speak with him prior to 8:30 that day, and much of what he is willing to do will be based on the opinion of the officer. If the officer felt you were being unsafe enough to pull you over, it is not likely he will have softened his heart enough to let you off the hook.
If your court time is 8:30 on a Tuesday, be prepared to sit in the courtroom for up to two hours. If you want a trial you will be called last, in order to get everyone else off the docket.

This is good inside info. Sounds like I'm screwed, and the facts are going to be irrelevant. That sucks bigtime, but I guess I'd rather set the expectations low if I have no chance to begin with...do you recommend any particular course of action? Does my girlfriend's eyewitness testimony matter/help? I want to know if I can do anything at all to help my case. It's pretty incredible to me that I could have followed the law exactly and be railroaded like what you are describing.

Posted 2 years ago #
StowCbusCleveland
Jackson Township, Canton, OH
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@lifeliberty, re: the open space to my left: it is entirely possible that the space was technically "open" when I passed the trooper, but when I say traffic was back and to my left and gaining, I don't mean by 10 car lengths, I mean by 1.5 (or less). The traffic was close enough that while I may not have immediately hit someone when I crossed the dotted line, it would have qualified as cutting someone off pretty aggressively, and forcing them to slam brakes. The applicable portion of the law itself reads:

"...if the driver is traveling on a highway of that type but it is not possible to change lanes or if to do so would be unsafe..."

I believe it was obvious that changing lanes would be unsafe given the proximity of said traffic. I'm sorry to hear about your friends, and I am very happy with the law. I know officers and other public safety officials have enough to worry about without a car traveling at high speeds only a couple yards away looming as a constant threat. I agree entirely with the law, in letter and spirit. I just don't think it was applied properly in my case, as I acted entirely reasonably, and in good faith to follow the law and protect the trooper.

@LBOWACC: It isn't in my nature to defy cops (who are acting in good faith, within the law, and under normal circumstances, etc.), and it isn't worth the 5% chance of getting caught anyway. I hadn't done anything wrong, so I had nothing to fear. Guess I might be wrong on that one.

@Patch: This happened just into Madison County, near Mt. Sterling I believe. I'll be at Madison County Municipal Court in London.

Posted 2 years ago #