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Hundreds face off at health care rally

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Started 1 year ago by pecuniadea
Latest reply from gramarye

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pecuniadea
victorian village
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I don't know if anyone read this in the Columbus Dispatch this evening, saw Twitter updates, or watched on the news, but this afternoon, outside of Congresswoman Mary Jo Kilroy's District Office (next to the Cap City Diner), there were hundreds of people protesting for and against health care reform:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/03/16/health-care-rally.html

I think it's great that people are expressing their constitutional right of freedom of speech, but I guess a gathering of people this angry kind of scares me.

Thoughts?

Posted 1 year ago #
byJody
Rural NW Columbus
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I learned about it from Organizing for America and attended. The Mary Jo supporters weren't really there to engage with the protesters, but they sure wanted to argue with us.

There is so much fear and misinformation, there was no convincing either side of the opposite opinion, so I just walked away.

I am 44 and I was surely one of the youngest there, I hope the next generation takes a stand on this one way or another. It's crazy to see people on Medicare get so angry about government run healthcare, like they don't understand who gives them Medicare!

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Reality Check Fact Sheets

Article from yesterday's Ohio visit by POTUS

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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pecuniadea wrote >>

I think it's great that people are expressing their constitutional right of freedom of speech, but I guess a gathering of people this angry kind of scares me.
Thoughts?

If what byJody says is true, the greatest danger might be someone breaking a hip.

Posted 1 year ago #
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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I'd like to see better access to health care for everyone.

that said, this bill, IMHO, will restrict access to healthcare.
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.

2) There seems to be an underlying assumption that if the government does something, it will be done more efficiently. I really don't see that.

It's somewhat like; You have a mob of 100 angry people fighting over 50 undividable apples. 70 of those people are sure they are going to get screwed and are afraid. So the government comes in, takes away 10 apples and tells everyone that they will each get at least one apple, maybe more.

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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This was on NPR this morning...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124758589&ft=1&f=1001

Posted 1 year ago #
DavidF
Elysium Fields
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Tenzo wrote >>
I'd like to see better access to health care for everyone.
that said, this bill, IMHO, will restrict access to healthcare.
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.
2) There seems to be an underlying assumption that if the government does something, it will be done more efficiently. I really don't see that.
It's somewhat like; You have a mob of 100 angry people fighting over 50 undividable apples. 70 of those people are sure they are going to get screwed and are afraid. So the government comes in, takes away 10 apples and tells everyone that they will each get at least one apple, maybe more.

If anything, I see an underlying assumption that the government can't do anything more efficiently. I see that as fallacious as automatically assuming it can. The only thing I know is that the system as is, is unsustainable.

and your analogy is cute, but I don't see how it applies.

Posted 1 year ago #
LBOWACC

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I am taking soeone on medicaid to the doctor right now, if you have ever been on medicaid, you know the government should run nothing. I like how all the middle class liberals praise government run shit, but they dont know shit about being on a government program, and how horrible it is. Middle class liberals=talk bout shit all day, but have no experience with shit. Middle class liberals crack me the fuck up, dumbest type of liberal. Poor liberals make sense, and millionaire liberals make sense, 50k a year liberal makes no sense.

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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Tenzo wrote >>
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.

Indeed.

Posted 1 year ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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LBOWACC wrote >>
I am taking soeone on medicaid to the doctor right now, if you have ever been on medicaid, you know the government should run nothing. .

The privately-administered Medicaid programs are far worse. By several factors.

A.

Posted 1 year ago #
Brant
Gahanna
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rus wrote >>

Tenzo wrote >>
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.

Indeed.

You're applying normal supply/demand logic to an exceptional case; the health insurance industry has an unlimited supply of product and universal demand for it. Selling health insurance isn't like selling apples at the fruit stand.

Posted 1 year ago #
KSquared
Literally Hell
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LBOWACC wrote >>
I am taking soeone on medicaid to the doctor right now, if you have ever been on medicaid, you know the government should run nothing. I like how all the middle class liberals praise government run shit, but they dont know shit about being on a government program, and how horrible it is. Middle class liberals=talk bout shit all day, but have no experience with shit. Middle class liberals crack me the fuck up, dumbest type of liberal. Poor liberals make sense, and millionaire liberals make sense, 50k a year liberal makes no sense.

Why don't you just tell them to get a decent job, since "all decent jobs come with health care"? Could it be that it's more complicated than that?

Posted 1 year ago #
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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Brant Jones wrote >>

rus wrote >>

Tenzo wrote >>
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.

Indeed.

You're applying normal supply/demand logic to an exceptional case; the health insurance industry has an unlimited supply of product and universal demand for it. Selling health insurance isn't like selling apples at the fruit stand.

I was speaking of health care.
Of which there is a finite supply of doctors.

Posted 1 year ago #
spookygoddess78
Northland-ish
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As an FYI, although Ohio Medicaid is admistered by the state and the state provides oversight...it is a program that is contracted out and basically run by private, for-profit health plans - the only indiviuals in Ohio that are still on a fee-for-service model (strictly government run) are children with special needs and dual eligibles (individuals receiving both medicare and medicaid). Covered families and children as well as Aged, Blind and Disabled adults are all on the managed care (privatized) system. I'd be interested to hear your specific gripes about Ohio's Medicaid system (Andrew and LBOWACC) mostly because I'm just curious. I was a Medicaid administrator for 3 years.

Posted 1 year ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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Brant Jones wrote >>

rus wrote >>

Tenzo wrote >>
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.

Indeed.

You're applying normal supply/demand logic to an exceptional case; the health insurance industry has an unlimited supply of product and universal demand for it. Selling health insurance isn't like selling apples at the fruit stand.

So sorry to inform, but product = dollars and the lack of unlimited supply (EMI!) is the core of the problem.

A.

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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Brant Jones wrote >>

rus wrote >>

Tenzo wrote >>
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.

Indeed.

You're applying normal supply/demand logic to an exceptional case; the health insurance industry has an unlimited supply of product and universal demand for it. Selling health insurance isn't like selling apples at the fruit stand.

So there's an unlimited supply of health care?

Posted 1 year ago #
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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The current administration has made it more difficult to become a doctor. With the phase out of differment of college loans due to hardship. The vast majority of doctors can expect to be living below the poverty line during their four to nine years as a resident.

Lets see now.
Step 1: Claim you will give out more X
Step 2: Decrease the supply of X

Don't need a degree in Econ for this.

Posted 1 year ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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Brant Jones wrote >>

rus wrote >>

Tenzo wrote >>
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.

Indeed.

You're applying normal supply/demand logic to an exceptional case; the health insurance industry has an unlimited supply of product and universal demand for it. Selling health insurance isn't like selling apples at the fruit stand.

That quote made no sense at all. You simply cannot have an "unlimited" supply or demand.

Posted 1 year ago #
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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gramarye wrote >>

Brant Jones wrote >>

rus wrote >>

Tenzo wrote >>
1) It does nothing to increase availability. You can't have more of something by just giving it to more people.

Indeed.

You're applying normal supply/demand logic to an exceptional case; the health insurance industry has an unlimited supply of product and universal demand for it. Selling health insurance isn't like selling apples at the fruit stand.

That quote made no sense at all. You simply cannot have an "unlimited" supply or demand.

Pelosi thinks so

Posted 1 year ago #
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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I think the confusion is that some people think the Health Care bill is about Health Care.

It isn't

Posted 1 year ago #
Andrew Hall
Dennison Place (The Circles)
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spookygoddess78 wrote I'd be interested to hear your specific gripes about Ohio's Medicaid system (Andrew and LBOWACC) mostly because I'm just curious. I was a Medicaid administrator for 3 years.

From the provider p-o-v, Caresource and Molina are nightmares. Their business models are basically to avoid payment and create enough obstacles to the point where the provider writes it off. Or they are just completely fucking idiots with no incentive to improve. Or both. I don't mind dealing with ODJFS and the other state agencies on an administrative level. The medical level is another story.

Payment levels are also an issue, but that is separate from how well-run something is.

A.

Posted 1 year ago #