TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
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Perhaps if our nation engages in a desperate and futile attempt to remain a superpower at all costs, we'll make life more difficult for United States Americans than it would be otherwise.
Do our national debt, trade imbalance, and loss of manufacturing capacity comprise some of the factors of our demise ?
What, if anything, can everyday people such as you and myself do to come to terms with this ?
The United States as a non-superpower
gramarye
In Exile
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No superpower moment lasts forever.
That said, the two largest obstacles we have to maintaining our superpower status are (a) our federal budget and (b) nuclear proliferation.
The budget's problems are significant, but even now, correctable--it would simply take a certain amount of domestic pain, primarily in the form of lower entitlement payments.
Nuclear proliferation is more concerning, but even in this age of relatively advanced and ubiquitous technology, assembling a nuclear weapon--particularly without a First World economy backing it up--is not an easy task. The countries that are not currently nuclear but which could easily go nuclear--Japan, South Korea, Germany, and perhaps one or two other members of the EU and Brazil--are not hostile to the U.S.
We may never again reach the relative zeniths that we reached in 1946 (nuclear monopoly and the rest of the world in ruins) and 1993 (collapse of the USSR), but it will be a long time before anyone truly reaches parity with us, even China or a completely federalized EU.
People have been predicting the fall of the American republic basically since our rise. It's easy to find things that are wrong with America, but that's not because we're significantly more flawed than anyone else, it's that we're more public about our flaws than anyone else, particularly when compared with potential adversaries. (The UK media and political culture also celebrates airing dirty laundry, for example, but so what?) That means that it's much easier to have a look at structural weaknesses in American than in China. That can lead one to believe that China has got things all figured out and America is a basket case. That's not necessarily true.
michaelcoyote
!seabus
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Bear wrote >>
Yes... about twenty years ago:
Pretty much the whole of my adult life is been framed by that concept. I've been thinking about this on and off since I started paying attention to politics and the rest of the world (20+ years ago!). The amusing thing is watching pundits be wrong over and over again attempting to explain away major problems.
That said I don't think America as a major power is going anywhere soon. It's going to be a very long slide.
rus
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michaelcoyote wrote >>
Bear wrote >>
Yes... about twenty years ago:Pretty much the whole of my adult life is been framed by that concept. I've been thinking about this on and off since I started paying attention to politics and the rest of the world (20+ years ago!). The amusing thing is watching pundits be wrong over and over again attempting to explain away major problems.
That said I don't think America as a major power is going anywhere soon. It's going to be a very long slide.
Same here... although one does wonder at times.
http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2010-10/tipping-future-fleet-0
pedex
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#1 threat is energy, specifically oil
without abundant cheap oil this nation ceases to be what it is and that time is rapidly approaching
the other normal symptoms of an unraveling empire are already here:
rule of law is disappearing
rampant fraud and corruption
failure of govt to respond or heed the wishes of its own citizens
huge military over reach and blunders
education system is a failure
medical system is failing
infrastructure is failing and not being replaced properly
rus
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pedex wrote >>
#1 threat is energy, specifically oil
without abundant cheap oil this nation ceases to be what it is and that time is rapidly approaching
the other normal symptoms of an unraveling empire are already here:
rule of law is disappearing
rampant fraud and corruption
failure of govt to respond or heed the wishes of its own citizens
huge military over reach and blunders
education system is a failure
medical system is failing
infrastructure is failing and not being replaced properly
Got any measurements for any of that, or is that a summation of your perceptions?
pedex
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rus wrote >>
pedex wrote >>
#1 threat is energy, specifically oil
without abundant cheap oil this nation ceases to be what it is and that time is rapidly approaching
the other normal symptoms of an unraveling empire are already here:
rule of law is disappearing
rampant fraud and corruption
failure of govt to respond or heed the wishes of its own citizens
huge military over reach and blunders
education system is a failure
medical system is failing
infrastructure is failing and not being replaced properlyGot any measurements for any of that, or is that a summation of your perceptions?
I would think most of it is self evident at this point.
our banking system is insolvent due to fraud, gross negligence, and failure to enforce our laws
our govt as well as several others have already published papers about the oil situation as well as it being pretty mainstream at this stage not to mention long standing US military posture and actions in regards to oil
military over reach and blunders? does this really need explained?
US infrastructure rates about a 'D' on the academic grading scale, google it, ain't like its a secret, this why bridges collapse and kill people or gas lines leak and explode killing people. See recent news.
education, what's the US ranking in the world? well below average, pretty good for a "superpower" huh that has ZERO excuses
do I need to even get into our medical system? many "third" world nations have better medical care
the US has zero excuses here, we have allegedly the ultimate economic and governmental system man has ever devised yet here we are and the results speak for themselves, we got ourselves into this willingly
rus
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"self evident" isn't, sometimes.
Other times, what appears to be self evident isn't on a closer look.
What are your measurements? How are you defining and counting things and to what degree of certainty? Do you have a narrative of events or a perception?
Take one: you just said rule of law is disappearing. Can you prove that, or do you feel that?
TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
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gramarye wrote >>
No superpower moment lasts forever.
That said, the two largest obstacles we have to maintaining our superpower status are (a) our federal budget and (b) nuclear proliferation.
The budget's problems are significant, but even now, correctable--it would simply take a certain amount of domestic pain, primarily in the form of lower entitlement payments.
Nuclear proliferation is more concerning, but even in this age of relatively advanced and ubiquitous technology, assembling a nuclear weapon--particularly without a First World economy backing it up--is not an easy task. The countries that are not currently nuclear but which could easily go nuclear--Japan, South Korea, Germany, and perhaps one or two other members of the EU and Brazil--are not hostile to the U.S.
We may never again reach the relative zeniths that we reached in 1946 (nuclear monopoly and the rest of the world in ruins) and 1993 (collapse of the USSR), but it will be a long time before anyone truly reaches parity with us, even China or a completely federalized EU.
People have been predicting the fall of the American republic basically since our rise. It's easy to find things that are wrong with America, but that's not because we're significantly more flawed than anyone else, it's that we're more public about our flaws than anyone else, particularly when compared with potential adversaries. (The UK media and political culture also celebrates airing dirty laundry, for example, but so what?) That means that it's much easier to have a look at structural weaknesses in American than in China. That can lead one to believe that China has got things all figured out and America is a basket case. That's not necessarily true.
Lowering entitlement payments so as to address the national debt? How about returning the marginal tax rate to what it was in, say, the 1950s ? Enlighten me as to why the former is preferable to the latter.
To me, cutting social programs would likely lead to an increase in crime and a decrease in civil liberty, and a march (further ?) toward a police state where the state does the bidding of an economic elite.
Also disinvestment from social spending would likely further weaken of our nation's infrastructure and human resources, hurting us economically, politically, and even militarily.
After all, even billionaire investor Warren Buffet says that he and others like him make their fortunes by using the human resources and infrastructure of society.
pedex
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rus wrote >>
"self evident" isn't, sometimes.
Other times, what appears to be self evident isn't on a closer look.
What are your measurements? How are you defining and counting things and to what degree of certainty? Do you have a narrative of events or a perception?
Take one: you just said rule of law is disappearing. Can you prove that, or do you feel that?
how many times in your lifetime has our banking system been insolvent? and insolvent due to willful lack of law enforcement? looked at the foreclosure debacle much, that is a good example but just a piece of the much larger drama unfolding right now
property rights and banking laws are pretty serious and important foundations of this country, ever seen them blown off in your lifetime or the history of this country the way they are now?
http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/10/14/why-does-mexico-outrank-u-s-in-access-to-civil-justice/
there's an actual study if you insist, a failed state(Mexico) outranks the US
rus
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pedex wrote >>
rus wrote >>
"self evident" isn't, sometimes.
Other times, what appears to be self evident isn't on a closer look.
What are your measurements? How are you defining and counting things and to what degree of certainty? Do you have a narrative of events or a perception?
Take one: you just said rule of law is disappearing. Can you prove that, or do you feel that?how many times in your lifetime has our banking system been insolvent? and insolvent due to willful lack of law enforcement? looked at the foreclosure debacle much, that is a good example but just a piece of the much larger drama unfolding right now
property rights and banking laws are pretty serious and important foundations of this country, ever seen them blown off in your lifetime or the history of this country the way they are now?
http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/10/14/why-does-mexico-outrank-u-s-in-access-to-civil-justice/
there's an actual study if you insist, a failed state(Mexico) outranks the US
That's better... but you do spot the obvious bias, right?
rus
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TomOver wrote >>
To me, cutting social programs would likely lead to an increase in crime and a decrease in civil liberty, and a march (further ?) toward a police state where the state does the bidding of an economic elite.
So, during the great depression when the modern welfare state did not exist and the economy was in the tank there were high crime rates?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97234406
rustbelt
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Spending more on our military then every other country on the planet combined, and financing it by continually piling debt on top of debt, will catch up with us eventually. Some would say it already has.
Funny how the tea-partiers never bring that up as a problem with our government and/or an example of fiscal irresponsibility.
pedex
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TomOver wrote >>
gramarye wrote >>
No superpower moment lasts forever.
That said, the two largest obstacles we have to maintaining our superpower status are (a) our federal budget and (b) nuclear proliferation.
The budget's problems are significant, but even now, correctable--it would simply take a certain amount of domestic pain, primarily in the form of lower entitlement payments.
Nuclear proliferation is more concerning, but even in this age of relatively advanced and ubiquitous technology, assembling a nuclear weapon--particularly without a First World economy backing it up--is not an easy task. The countries that are not currently nuclear but which could easily go nuclear--Japan, South Korea, Germany, and perhaps one or two other members of the EU and Brazil--are not hostile to the U.S.
We may never again reach the relative zeniths that we reached in 1946 (nuclear monopoly and the rest of the world in ruins) and 1993 (collapse of the USSR), but it will be a long time before anyone truly reaches parity with us, even China or a completely federalized EU.
People have been predicting the fall of the American republic basically since our rise. It's easy to find things that are wrong with America, but that's not because we're significantly more flawed than anyone else, it's that we're more public about our flaws than anyone else, particularly when compared with potential adversaries. (The UK media and political culture also celebrates airing dirty laundry, for example, but so what?) That means that it's much easier to have a look at structural weaknesses in American than in China. That can lead one to believe that China has got things all figured out and America is a basket case. That's not necessarily true.Lowering entitlement payments so as to address the national debt? How about returning the marginal tax rate to what it was in, say, the 1950s ? Enlighten me as to why the former is preferable to the latter.
To me, cutting social programs would likely lead to an increase in crime and a decrease in civil liberty, and a march (further ?) toward a police state where the state does the bidding of an economic elite.
Also disinvestment from social spending would likely further weaken of our nation's infrastructure and human resources, hurting us economically, politically, and even militarily.
After all, even billionaire investor Warren Buffet says that he and others like him make their fortunes by using the human resources and infrastructure of society.
The US does not have a choice, spending will be cut one way or another and given the amount of over spending going on some entitlements are going to have to be history.
SS just started costing money over and above payroll tax as of like june or july 2010, current deficit burn rate is in excess of $1.3 trillion per year while incoming tax revenue excluding payroll tax hovers around $900 billion per year
the money has to come from somewhere and the maximum aggregate tax the US govt has eve been able to collect for any length of time is about 20% of GDP and we are at that now already
rus
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rustbelt wrote >>
Spending more on our military then every other country on the planet combined, and financing it by continually piling debt on top of debt, will catch up with us eventually. Some would say it already has.
Funny how the tea-partiers never bring that up as a problem with our government and/or an example of fiscal irresponsibility.
Oh, there's a number of isolationists among the right wing. They've been drowned out by the interventionalist neocons for a while, but they're around.
pedex
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rus wrote >>
rustbelt wrote >>
Spending more on our military then every other country on the planet combined, and financing it by continually piling debt on top of debt, will catch up with us eventually. Some would say it already has.
Funny how the tea-partiers never bring that up as a problem with our government and/or an example of fiscal irresponsibility.Oh, there's a number of isolationists among the right wing. They've been drowned out by the interventionalist neocons for a while, but they're around.
isolationist? love that euphemism especially how it is so misused
no possible way to be isolationist these days, we have global trade and a global economy
using the military for what it is intended isn't isolationist
pedex
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rus wrote >>
pedex wrote >>
using the military for what it is intended isn't isolationistIn your opinion, is the primary purpose of the military nation building? Relief / humanitarian missions?
self defense
which is exactly what was set up right after WW II and then promptly abandoned by Eisenhower and the Dulles brothers
Nuremburg and the Geneva conventions really don't leave much wiggle room if they are adhered to yet despite this the US has covertly or overtly overthrown by force about 30 govt's since WW II in direct violation of the very precedents it set.
If you wanna act and play the role of the good guy then you actually have to do it. If not then the duplicity and hypocrisy is seen as pretty bogus very quickly.
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