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Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Politics
Guns in Bars
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Posted 5 months ago # -
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the best possible upside to guns in bars instead of just explaining why the worst won't happen.
Posted 5 months ago # -
rus
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Coremodels said:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the best possible upside to guns in bars instead of just explaining why the worst won't happen.Is there something about a restaurant or bar that prevents a violent encounter? I mean, it happens:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/north_bay&id=8459867
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/11/23/suspect-in-restaurant-shooting-may-have-been-killed-by-police/
http://www.military.com/news/article/2011/guardsmen-among-dead-in-nev-restaurant-shooting.htmletc.
So, while I think it's better if such incidents never happen I recognize they will ( even if hopefully they remain rare ).
Is it somehow better if, legally, potential victims are disarmed? If so, why?
On the other side of it, is there a problem allowing citizens who pass training requirements and background checks carry firearms for personal defense? Doesn't appear to be. From Virginia:
With this bit in particular:
David Rittgers, an attorney and decorated former Army special forces officer who is now a legal policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, said the growing number of states that are adopting concealed-carry measures like Virginia's have seen no appreciable rise — and in some cases a decline — in violent crime.
"The worst that you can say about these laws is that they are statistically value neutral" in terms of impacting the crime rate, Rittgers said.
Rittgers said states that have enacted such concealed-carry legislation — "even when they've done some relatively restrictive provisions upfront" — have relaxed those over time "because of the lack of violent incidents that might be connected with persons carrying concealed (weapons) with a permit."
From a social cost point of view, increasing the number of citizens legally carrying firearms in public ( including in bars ) does not increase the crime rate. It affords the law abiding citizen the means of self defense, which they use:
http://buckeyefirearms.com/Ohio-CHL-holders-acting-in-self-defense
Posted 5 months ago # -
groundrules
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rus said:
Is it somehow better if, legally, potential victims are disarmed? If so, why?
yes. quite simple, really. because, as you say, "it happens". so when the inevitable alcohol fueled bar fight escalates, people don't shoot each other. it's kinda 'duh'. Columbus, recently:
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/24/4/two-shot-outside-southeast-side-bar-ar-907701/
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/10/police-man-shot-bar-stable-ar-928244/
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/25/7/two-people-shot-inside-east-side-bar-ar-909325/
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/01/31/columbus-east-side-bar-shooting.html
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/04/overnight-shooting-sends-1-hospital-ar-921590/
This argument of "victim zone" is playing out all wrong. This notion that legal gun owners are going to defend life and property from masked boogie men trying to steal the tip jar isn't happening. This is patrons shooting patrons, and bars are not safer.
Posted 3 months ago # -
rus
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groundrules said:
yes. quite simple, really. because, as you say, "it happens". so when the inevitable alcohol fueled bar fight escalates, people don't shoot each other. it's kinda 'duh'. Columbus, recently:http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/24/4/two-shot-outside-southeast-side-bar-ar-907701/
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/10/police-man-shot-bar-stable-ar-928244/
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/25/7/two-people-shot-inside-east-side-bar-ar-909325/
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/01/31/columbus-east-side-bar-shooting.html
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/04/overnight-shooting-sends-1-hospital-ar-921590/
This argument of "victim zone" is playing out all wrong. This notion that legal gun owners are going to defend life and property from masked boogie men trying to steal the tip jar isn't happening. This is patrons shooting patrons, and bars are not safer.
So, you're saying that in those cases above the shooters all had permits for concealed weapons?
Or, perhaps the people involved ignored that law just like they ignored laws about brandishing and attempted murder. Figure those shootings, sadly, would happen no matter what the law says.
I don't think this was ever about defending a tip jar; more like when something like the incidents you point out happen it gives someone who cares about the law an edge, legally.
Posted 3 months ago # -
groundrules
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