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He was charged with "ethnic intimidation" really? Talk about a lame law, I would be more upset with that than the ccw violation.
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Politics
Guns in Bars
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Posted 1 year ago # -
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the best possible upside to guns in bars instead of just explaining why the worst won't happen.
Posted 1 year ago # -
rus
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Coremodels said:
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the best possible upside to guns in bars instead of just explaining why the worst won't happen.Is there something about a restaurant or bar that prevents a violent encounter? I mean, it happens:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/north_bay&id=8459867
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/11/23/suspect-in-restaurant-shooting-may-have-been-killed-by-police/
http://www.military.com/news/article/2011/guardsmen-among-dead-in-nev-restaurant-shooting.htmletc.
So, while I think it's better if such incidents never happen I recognize they will ( even if hopefully they remain rare ).
Is it somehow better if, legally, potential victims are disarmed? If so, why?
On the other side of it, is there a problem allowing citizens who pass training requirements and background checks carry firearms for personal defense? Doesn't appear to be. From Virginia:
With this bit in particular:
David Rittgers, an attorney and decorated former Army special forces officer who is now a legal policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, said the growing number of states that are adopting concealed-carry measures like Virginia's have seen no appreciable rise — and in some cases a decline — in violent crime.
"The worst that you can say about these laws is that they are statistically value neutral" in terms of impacting the crime rate, Rittgers said.
Rittgers said states that have enacted such concealed-carry legislation — "even when they've done some relatively restrictive provisions upfront" — have relaxed those over time "because of the lack of violent incidents that might be connected with persons carrying concealed (weapons) with a permit."
From a social cost point of view, increasing the number of citizens legally carrying firearms in public ( including in bars ) does not increase the crime rate. It affords the law abiding citizen the means of self defense, which they use:
http://buckeyefirearms.com/Ohio-CHL-holders-acting-in-self-defense
Posted 1 year ago # -
groundrules
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rus said:
Is it somehow better if, legally, potential victims are disarmed? If so, why?
yes. quite simple, really. because, as you say, "it happens". so when the inevitable alcohol fueled bar fight escalates, people don't shoot each other. it's kinda 'duh'. Columbus, recently:
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/24/4/two-shot-outside-southeast-side-bar-ar-907701/
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/10/police-man-shot-bar-stable-ar-928244/
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/25/7/two-people-shot-inside-east-side-bar-ar-909325/
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/01/31/columbus-east-side-bar-shooting.html
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/04/overnight-shooting-sends-1-hospital-ar-921590/
This argument of "victim zone" is playing out all wrong. This notion that legal gun owners are going to defend life and property from masked boogie men trying to steal the tip jar isn't happening. This is patrons shooting patrons, and bars are not safer.
Posted 1 year ago # -
rus
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groundrules said:
yes. quite simple, really. because, as you say, "it happens". so when the inevitable alcohol fueled bar fight escalates, people don't shoot each other. it's kinda 'duh'. Columbus, recently:http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/24/4/two-shot-outside-southeast-side-bar-ar-907701/
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/10/police-man-shot-bar-stable-ar-928244/
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/jan/25/7/two-people-shot-inside-east-side-bar-ar-909325/
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/01/31/columbus-east-side-bar-shooting.html
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2012/feb/04/overnight-shooting-sends-1-hospital-ar-921590/
This argument of "victim zone" is playing out all wrong. This notion that legal gun owners are going to defend life and property from masked boogie men trying to steal the tip jar isn't happening. This is patrons shooting patrons, and bars are not safer.
So, you're saying that in those cases above the shooters all had permits for concealed weapons?
Or, perhaps the people involved ignored that law just like they ignored laws about brandishing and attempted murder. Figure those shootings, sadly, would happen no matter what the law says.
I don't think this was ever about defending a tip jar; more like when something like the incidents you point out happen it gives someone who cares about the law an edge, legally.
Posted 1 year ago # -
groundrules
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News
Columbus Underground
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Ohio Allows Guns in Bars, One Year Later Everything's A-Ok
10.03.2012
Story by: dabneybailey
Follow About a year ago, Ohio passed a law that allowed gun owners to legally carry concealed weapons into bars. As we all know, Ohio has since fallen into absolute anarchy with gangs of gun-toting murder squads roving the streets, drunkenly looting businesses and shooting bystanders. In fact, the whole state looks like a scene out of The Road Warrior.
Actually, wait a second. We just checked our sources, and it appears that Ohio is actually doing just fine. Who would have thought?
READ MORE: http://www.guns.com/ohio-gun-bars-update-11128.htmlPosted 7 months ago # -
kessler
Georgian Heights
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Guns in bars.... having worked in a bar for a number of years. I'd really say it's a bad idea. Then thinking about it just as legislation, although a bad idea to me somehow I really don't think it matters.
I know these incidents didn't happen in bars..(Delaware-Guns were stolen from the mother to utilize. Penn. the firefighters were shot by guns used by someone legally not able to possess them, details will probably come out they were stolen from sister or bought illegally.
So what I'm saying is laws can prevent people from getting them legally. however the guns that have already been sold are out there. Legally and illegally. Unfortunately evil people somehow always find a way.
As far as alcohol in a bar or at home never a good mixture with a gun. I've read a few stories about people leaving or getting kicked out then returning with a gun/knife etc..
Just my random thoughts on the issue (keeping in mind early morning w/ only 1 cup of coffee) peace out!Posted 5 months ago # -
groundrules
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