jbcmh81
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rus said:
So, grocery stores should change how they do business so more people can walk around and hang out.Uh huh.
I know, whoever heard of a company changing somethng about itself. It's not like there's a Target in a downtown somewhere, you know, like Minneapolis. How would they ever receive merchandise? How would they be able to serve customers successfully without always building the exact same way everywhere?
rus
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jbcmh81 said:
I know, whoever heard of a company changing somethng about itself. It's not like there's a Target in a downtown somewhere, you know, like Minneapolis. How would they ever receive merchandise? How would they be able to serve customers successfully without always building the exact same way everywhere?
Figure any business would want to increase sales. If a different design does that, why wouldn't they?
Do these changes increase sales?
jbcmh81
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rus said:
Figure any business would want to increase sales. If a different design does that, why wouldn't they?Do these changes increase sales?
Not a mystery here. The suburban layout with lots of parking has been successful. The developer is not requiring them to do something different, so they have no compelling reason to do something different. That in no way means the same thing as not being able to design and build a store with an urban layout that is both convenient and successful. It's been done just as successfully as the suburban store, but no one seems to be demanding that here. It's the status quo.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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derm said:
I did not say that. That is not the route I described. That is third avenue not first. That is City of Columbus, not Grandview. I did not go that way, nor would I. In fact in an earlier post I stated that the stretch in pictures was a wasteland of warehouses and makes getting to the Olentangy Bike Path a misery. I think you are thinking of someone elses comments.
I somehow missed that you said you biked on first, not third. Sorry for the confusion.
Still, this discussion is about Giant Eagle, which is going to be on Third. So my point still stands that this is not a pedestrian friendly street.
If your point was that that Grandview has other streets that *are* walkable/bikable, then I agree with you. But I don't see how that helps a whole lot with access to this new Giant Eagle location.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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ricospaz said:
This new Giant Eagle is not in the Urban Core, it's West of it. the River or Olentangy RR defines this to me.
Then you think Phase 1 of Grandview Yard is out of place because it's west of the river?
Grandview Avenue is a pretty urban street to me, and it's west of the river too.
joshlapp
Short North
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rus said:
Does seem like that, doesn't it?But of course if you'd rather drive to get groceries instead of lugging them on your back whilst hiking in a pool of sweat emanating from your nether regions you're just old. OLD I SAY.
Have you or anyone else supporting a suburban style layout ever visited the Short North Kroger? Obviously not, because if so you could see how a store could be designed to fit the needs of all the consumers. And if your argument is that no one will get there by any other mode than a car then I have to wonder if you are thinking about the possible influx of dense residential units in Grandview Yard and the surrounding areas.
We need to think 30 years out instead of 1 year out. The likelihood that this store site will change once it is build within the next 20-30 years is minimal. So frustrating when people/governments/developers/businesses are shortsighted.
Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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Pablo said:
Pedestrian friendly and car convenient do not have to be mutually exclusive.
Well said.
ricospaz said:
I agree with that. I just have a feeling this comes down to dollars and cents with the developer and Giant Eagle. Times is hard.
If it came down to dollars and cents, then a smaller parking lot is cheaper to build and maintain. ;) Just sayin'...
columbusmike
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rus said:
Because the desire for some to wander and hang out is the same as waterborne illness.
Public space is for more than just "wander[ing] and hang[ing] out". It contributes to a sense of place and community. The continued expansion of suburban-style development contributes to creating places that don't have character, a sense of place, vitality, meaning, and importance. Are places like Hiliard-Rome Road worth sending our kids overseas to fight for? Do these places create community?
We (and our kids) deserve better places to inhabit and call home.
GCrites80s
5xNW
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I don't think the idea of trying to lure people from the far-flung 'burbs with lots of parking will add much to sales. Why would somebody from Hillard drive to this GE except maybe to check it out once? They have plenty of nearly-identical choices themselves. Milk gets warm and ice cream melts during long car trips. I can definitely picture people driving from those places to get something unique from within the city and smuggling it back to their part of town, though. And I bet people make the additional drive to the GE Market District in UA to get swordfish, rattlesnake and whatnot at that store. But since this GE won't be a Market District, wasting a bunch of money on asphalt that will never see use in hopes of luring someone from Delaware to a standard Giant Eagle doesn't seem like it would offer payback. I doubt Giant Eagle thinks that's going to happen much anyway, so looking at a GE in the same way as an arena or entertainment district is a stretch.
surber17
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I think I'm in the demographic of people who are looking to live in Grandview Yard ---- lower 30's and about to be a DINK; so from a person who is looking to live in this area, if it turns out to look like Morse Road, or Sawmill, or anything like that .... I'm out. Phase 1 and 2 have potential and I love the location, but if this turns into a car-centric neighborhood I will be looking elsewhere to live.
derm
Grandview
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Walker said:
I somehow missed that you said you biked on first, not third. Sorry for the confusion.Still, this discussion is about Giant Eagle, which is going to be on Third. So my point still stands that this is not a pedestrian friendly street.
If your point was that that Grandview has other streets that *are* walkable/bikable, then I agree with you. But I don't see how that helps a whole lot with access to this new Giant Eagle location.
I totally agree that 3rd past Northwest is atrocious. Keep in mind however that those pics you showed are the "before" pics. And the pic we are all going off of is a computer generated simulation of a satellite phote. I am not sure I believe the press release about 6000 parking spots. The Giant Eagle location is going to fill 12 acres with the building and parking in total.
The average parking spot is about 200 square feet not including space between the aisles to drive in. 200sq ft times 6000 divided by 43560 sq ft per acre is over 27 acres, and that does not include the driving space, which pushes it closer to 45 acres. That is bigger than the whole Grandview Yard project. I think the numbers are off. I dont think the sea of asphalt will be as big as people think. 12 acres would only support 1600 spots total if there was no building at all. I think they meant to say 600 spots maybe.
Some are already bashing this development mercilously and calling it a failure and it is not complete yet. Not even 20% complete yet. I think NWR will do a better job than some around here think. I think people will be pleased at the end product. I will wait for the "after" pics before I judge it.
columbusmike
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surber17 said:
I think I'm in the demographic of people who are looking to live in Grandview Yard ---- lower 30's and about to be a DINK; so from a person who is looking to live in this area, if it turns out to look like Morse Road, or Sawmill, or anything like that .... I'm out. Phase 1 and 2 have potential and I love the location, but if this turns into a car-centric neighborhood I will be looking elsewhere to live.
I'm actually surprised that the residents living near this aren't a little enraged by what's going to be developed. A Lennox Phase 2 wouldn't exactly be something I'd welcome in my backyard.
ricospaz
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Walker said:
Then you think Phase 1 of Grandview Yard is out of place because it's west of the river?Grandview Avenue is a pretty urban street to me, and it's west of the river too.
Grandview Avenue is a walkable street with lots of personal businesses, but do we define that as urban? Walker, we've already had this conversation where I said the 'Suburbs' have their own little downtown areas that do well, have restuarants, etc. I grew up in Westerville. You know what Grandview feels like to me? Westerville, 30 years ago. That does not make it the Short North or Downtown Columbus.
columbusmike
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columbusmike
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