futureman
Grandview Heights
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jpizzow said:
Simple solution: parking to the rear. Done and done.
That's crazy talk!
No one is asking for a 4 story parking garage behind it with 2 or 3 stories of apartemtns/offices above - just the simple acknowledgement that this isn't sawmill rd.
Think Weiland Park Kroger. We already have an example of what should be done less than two miles away. Plenty of parking for the Rus's of the world with an ease of access for cars and bikes. So simple...
rus
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futureman said:
That's crazy talk!No one is asking for a 4 story parking garage behind it with 2 or 3 stories of apartemtns/offices above - just the simple acknowledgement that this isn't sawmill rd.
Think Weiland Park Kroger. We already have an example of what should be done less than two miles away. Plenty of parking for the Rus's of the world with an ease of access for cars and bikes. So simple...
Go back.
You going to bike or walk to this location? Cole might have a point; if you're not, if you and others are going to drive there or just drive past then what does it matter where the parking lot is? Are you advocating for an ideal you yourself will not utilize?
To be fair, I'll likely drive to this location no matter where the parking lot is.
NerosNeptune
Goodale Park
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Walker
The KLD / Downtown / Gay Street
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kit444 said:
Has anyone asked NRI or GE why a different configuation wasn't chosen?
This was prior to this thread explosion, but we did talk a little about it here with NRI:
http://www.columbusunderground.com/grandview-yard-seeks-retail-anchors-for-next-phase-of-development
Twixlen
The Weston District
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I keep thinking about this area as a bridge between two very walkable neighborhoods - it's not at all like the space on the corner of Dublin Rd/Grandview, where people are driving by at 50mph (at least).
And I keep thinking of the original Dorothy Lane Market in Dayton, and how well that works with the neighborhood it sits in. Parking in the rear (with the added complication of one way streets!) hasn't hurt their business any, considering the market has been there for 40 years.
rus
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Walker said:
This was prior to this thread explosion, but we did talk a little about it here with NRI:http://www.columbusunderground.com/grandview-yard-seeks-retail-anchors-for-next-phase-of-development
From that:
Retailers across the country are largely turning their noses up at town center developments. It attracted retailers for awhile, but now they’re backing away from it and going back to more traditional shopping environments.
Makes me wonder if developers no longer see the additional cost of idealistic designs as worth the investment.
columbusmike
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Twixlen said:
I keep thinking about this area as a bridge between two very walkable neighborhoods - it's not at all like the space on the corner of Dublin Rd/Grandview, where people are driving by at 50mph (at least).And I keep thinking of the original Dorothy Lane Market in Dayton, and how well that works with the neighborhood it sits in. Parking in the rear (with the added complication of one way streets!) hasn't hurt their business any, considering the market has been there for 40 years.
Wait, you mean a successful grocery store that respects traditional urban form of buildings meeting the street AND it still has parking available?
Streetview
What a horrible place!!!!! ;)
columbusmike
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rus said:
From that:Retailers across the country are largely turning their noses up at town center developments. It attracted retailers for awhile, but now they’re backing away from it and going back to more traditional shopping environments.Makes me wonder if developers no longer see the additional cost of idealistic designs as worth the investment.
I think they are referring to places such as Easton. Those have the gimmicky name of "town centers" but they lack the most important parts of anything that resembles a "town" (i.e. housing, schools, libraries, etc)
kit444
Elsewhere
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columbusmike said:
Wait, you mean a successful grocery store that respects traditional urban form of buildings meeting the street AND it still has parking available?
StreetviewWhat a horrible place!!!!! ;)
It's an underwhelming facade.
rus
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columbusmike said:
I think they are referring to places such as Easton. Those have the gimmicky name of "town centers" but they lack the most important parts of anything that resembles a "town" (i.e. housing, schools, libraries, etc)
Oh, sure.
At the same time, NRI is going for a more traditional design in this location. Why's that? Could be that they don't think they can recoup their investment with a more expensive design.
alexs
Limestone bluffs of the Scioto
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rus said:
From that:Makes me wonder if developers no longer see the additional cost of idealistic designs as worth the investment.
They have a sort of Twilight Zone model town feel to me. (ETA: Stop Over in a Quiet Town)
I looked up "town center development" and found this quote:
...many of these new town centers nonetheless lack a certain … something. The stores may look suspiciously like the ones at the shopping mall. The buildings may appear too uniformly clean, with not a single poorly-scaled sign or protruding air conditioner window unit disrupting the streetscape. The odds are good that the town center's stores maintain common hours, opening and closing in unison (anyone familiar with independently owned businesses knows that it's just not normal for mom-and-pops to agree with each other on things like store hours).
ricospaz
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I was at Easton on Saturday night and if you'd taken the people out of the equation it would have felt like being in the movie Pleasantville. Everything is a bit too nice and clean. That said, it's just a shopping center, or outdoor mall. It's own type of charm.
gramarye
In Exile
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columbusmike said:
Again, we've completely lost the understanding and importance of public space in our country. I can't believe anyone would argue for a city full of parking lots and slight convenience over the richness of a vibrant urban city.It's a failure of our country's zoning codes.
You're making the assumption that if you zone for it, you'll actually get it--rather than getting developers to simply walk and leave the dilapidated, older structures in place.
If the economics of the project could not support another Arena District-scale project, that can't be blamed on NRI.
I'm not averse to changing zoning codes, but they always have to be done with a focus on the fact that developers have the right to not develop, and at the end of the day, it's their money on the line. Aesthetic preferences need to be tempered by that reality (as well as the acknowledgement that if those aesthetic preferences were actually widely held, the economics of the project would not be infeasible--which should send a message regarding just how widely held that particular set of aesthetic values is).
derm
Grandview
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rus said:
Oh, sure.At the same time, NRI is going for a more traditional design in this location. Why's that? Could be that they don't think they can recoup their investment with a more expensive design.
Plain and simple I think the people who designed this Giant Eagle looked down the street to the one that it is replacing(5th/GV) and said to themselves "what is crummy about this Giant Eagle". Even though it is amazing pedestrian friendly, right on the street, right on a busline, surrounded by houses, middle of a neighborhood, it has amazingly crummy parking and is hampered by the fact it can never be changed, or expanded upon. The upcoming one differs in the plans to eliminate the negatives of the current GE, while keeping most of the positives. Groceries are a cutthroat business, small margins, lots of competition. I am pretty sure the people who designed it looked to get the most competitive store possible.
leftovers
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derm said:
Groceries are a cutthroat business, small margins, lots of competition. I am pretty sure the people who designed it looked to get the most competitive store possible.
I have to agree that though I would prefer a more pedestrian friendly store (love the SN Kroger), I imagine there was a lot of market research and fiscal wrangling done.
I also want to point out that the Kroger on Chambers has been upgraded and expanded several times. I think that expandability/adaptability is also planned into it. If you look at the SN Kroger you will see that a lot of the wiring hangs down from the ceiling and does not come from walls or floors. I do not think this is going to be a static building over the next 20 years.
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