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Got guns and ammo to go with that community garden ?

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Started 1 year ago by TomOver
Latest reply from Corey Aumiller

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TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
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Working on community gardens, CSA programs and farmersÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ markets in an attempt to come to terms with the probable breakdown of the industrial vending machine feeding most of us ?

Working on local script or currency to prepare for a collapse of modern finance or home remedies for a collapse in modern medicine ? (Food, finance, and medicine are linked to petroleum)

How about making serious plans for community self-defense ?

If some of us are preparing for these and other types of collapse in terms of the amenities of modern life, shouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t we also prepare ourselves for a collapse in the ability of the police to maintain public safety ?

Combining our community gardening and other re-localization efforts on the one hand, with, on the other hand, amassing guns and bullets would seem to make sense to cope with the possibility that our government may become too broke to maintain effective police forces.

Also---though perhaps less feasibly for the average person--- having guns would make sense if peak oil somehow leads government officials and leaders of corporations to seek to impose a police state.

What are the current laws pertaining to forming mutual aid arrangements that involve amassing firearms ?

I've yet to even begin to explore the question of when following a higher moral imperative would call for breaking those laws. What do you think ?

Posted 1 year ago #
JoeMitchell

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build arail gun

Posted 1 year ago #
labi
Weinland Park
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TomOver, you should just move to Weinland Park. We are already well along the path to "community self-defense". I can tell you, it's not that complicated.

Posted 1 year ago #
SusanB
Hungarian Village, Columbus' fastest growing Gayborhood!
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Just go to Vances.

Posted 1 year ago #
10sun
Columbus, OH
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Learn to structure arguments or just keep spewing random soundbites connected tangentially only in your own addled mind.

Posted 1 year ago #
GW_Justice
Grandview Hts.
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There was a big surge in gun sales to the teabagger contingent. Some of them had similar plans for TEOTWAWKI (like the song), but most of them were just sure that the ability to own private guns would be taken away.

There was a similar group for Y2K, and plenty of survivalist groups in the past. Preparing for doom has always been popular for a segment of the US. And yet ... doom never came.

I don't think there are any laws that prevent you from stocking up your own arsenal. The problem is that everyone has been wrong about the need to do it. And when it becomes clear in some future apocalypse that you do need to do it, it will be too late.

Posted 1 year ago #
TomOver
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GW_Justice wrote >>
There was a big surge in gun sales to the teabagger contingent. Some of them had similar plans for TEOTWAWKI (like the song), but most of them were just sure that the ability to own private guns would be taken away.
There was a similar group for Y2K, and plenty of survivalist groups in the past. Preparing for doom has always been popular for a segment of the US. And yet ... doom never came.
I don't think there are any laws that prevent you from stocking up your own arsenal. The problem is that everyone has been wrong about the need to do it. And when it becomes clear in some future apocalypse that you do need to do it, it will be too late.

What's interesting is that many folk associate this with being right wing or conservative, and many of the folk involved with 'sustainability' tend to be regarded as liberal, though that's not always the case.

Posted 1 year ago #
TomOver
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labi wrote >>
TomOver, you should just move to Weinland Park. We are already well along the path to "community self-defense". I can tell you, it's not that complicated.

I don't live there, but my guess is that what you're referring to is people having guns for individual and/or family/household self defense.

Maybe I didn't say so in the original post, but what I am referring to would be a situation in which some of the 'sustainability' groups in Columbus include weapons training as a part of their skills building/skills sharing, along with their efforts at, for example, community gardening or doing river clean ups.

I guess you could lump what I am talking about into the broader DIY movement in which folk are seeking to minimize their dependence on systems they feel are unresponsive and/or unreliable.

My point was that various folk I've met are hip to the DIY concept when it comes to food and maybe software or bicycle repair, but don't seem to give much thought to community self-defense which by the way differs significantly from individual/family self-defense.

Posted 1 year ago #
SusanB
Hungarian Village, Columbus' fastest growing Gayborhood!
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The Pink Pistols used to shoot at The Powder Room in Powell once a month. Don't know if they still do.

Posted 1 year ago #
groundrules

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raise your hand if you joined a CSA or went to the farmers market because you thought the collapse of society was immanent.

Posted 1 year ago #
TomOver
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groundrules wrote >>
raise your hand if you joined a CSA or went to the farmers market because you thought the collapse of society was immanent.

I'd go for eventual as opposed to imminent.

Posted 1 year ago #
Cookie
Flyntonville
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TomOver wrote >>

groundrules wrote >>
raise your hand if you joined a CSA or went to the farmers market because you thought the collapse of society was immanent.

I'd go for eventual as opposed to imminent.

It sounds like you're looking for a compound, not a community.

Posted 1 year ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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When I owned firearms in the past and when I consider owning in the future it's never been for some wildly fantastic world ending scenario. It's always been for the "meth head kicking my door down at 3 am" scenario.

Posted 1 year ago #
TomOver
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lifeontwowheels wrote >>
When I owned firearms in the past and when I consider owning in the future it's never been for some wildly fantastic world ending scenario. It's always been for the "meth head kicking my door down at 3 am" scenario.

How is it "wildly fantastic" ? Ecologically, we have desertification, draw down of aquifers, loss of biodiversity, climate disruption, and so on, along with resource problems such as peak oil and natural gas, and perhaps even coal.

On top of that, the US government is heading toward insolvency, and as US political and economic power diminishes, some people in this country may seek scapegoats, leading to political repression and/or civil strife.

No offense, but acting as if none of these challenges will come to a head is , in my opinion, what is 'wildly fantastic."

As for the person on meth doing a home invasion, the likelihood of that scenario may increase as our financially strapped governments cut social spending, regardless of what party is in power.

Then the average citizen will be between the devil and the deep blue sea: a likely increasingly violent under-class on the one hand, and, on the other hand, an increasingly intrusive police state trying to maintain order and/or protect the socio-economic elite.

I think in terms of mitigating these ecological and social problems, not preventing them, and doing so while appreciating the beauty, mystery, and wonder of living.

Posted 1 year ago #
TomOver
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Cookie wrote >>

TomOver wrote >>

groundrules wrote >>
raise your hand if you joined a CSA or went to the farmers market because you thought the collapse of society was immanent.

I'd go for eventual as opposed to imminent.

It sounds like you're looking for a compound, not a community.

If by 'compound' you mean a sort of gated and guarded and closed-off collection of people, you're making a good point. It begs the question of whether life under those conditions for a prolonged period of time would be worth living.

Also, come to think of it, I am aware of no one who belongs to some sort of affiliation of people having an agreed upon and rehearsed plan for setting up some sort of emergency community structure, whether it pertains to food, water, physical security, or some other necessity.

Also, I'm not talking about society collapsing over the course of a few days or weeks or even months.

Instead, I'm talking about a gradual process in which our institutions begin to falter in terms of many services we take for granted such as education, transportation, public safety, public health, and in terms of ordinary people having a say in the policy decisions that affect our lives.

I don't expect to wake up to a sort of collapse one morning. Instead, I expect to see cultural and political signs of structural stress. Perhaps the Tea Party movement is one such sign, in that some people are afraid and angry and looking for scapegoats as they sense that the American Dream and our cherished way of life is slipping away from us.

Further, my guess is that conflicts ostensibly based on religion or nationality will mask what are actually deeper conflicts over resources.

Sorry , if I'm coming across as all gloom and doom. The good news IMO is that we can face the world as it is and have courage to do what we think is right.

My position is that self-defense through guns and other means should be part of one's plans for coming to terms with a probable failure of our social systems. But by no means should that be the only part of our plans for a challenging future.

Posted 1 year ago #
JonMyers
HCMC ✈
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TomOver wrote >>

lifeontwowheels wrote >>
When I owned firearms in the past and when I consider owning in the future it's never been for some wildly fantastic world ending scenario. It's always been for the "meth head kicking my door down at 3 am" scenario.

How is it "wildly fantastic" ? Ecologically, we have desertification, draw down of aquifers, loss of biodiversity, climate disruption, and so on, along with resource problems such as peak oil and natural gas, and perhaps even coal.
On top of that, the US government is heading toward insolvency, and as US political and economic power diminishes, some people in this country may seek scapegoats, leading to political repression and/or civil strife.
No offense, but acting as if none of these challenges will come to a head is , in my opinion, what is 'wildly fantastic."
As for the person on meth doing a home invasion, the likelihood of that scenario may increase as our financially strapped governments cut social spending, regardless of what party is in power.
Then the average citizen will be between the devil and the deep blue sea: a likely increasingly violent under-class on the one hand, and, on the other hand, an increasingly intrusive police state trying to maintain order and/or protect the socio-economic elite.
I think in terms of mitigating these ecological and social problems, not preventing them, and doing so while appreciating the beauty, mystery, and wonder of living.

Obesity and/ or cancer are more likely to come bustin down your door and accelerate your visit to the grave versuses a meth head.

I've never understood why people obsess over these scenarios that have about the same statistical probability of manifesting as winning the lottery, while the real killers are breathing down their neck.

Imagine if people channeled that fear into something more realistic and productive.

Posted 1 year ago #
AmyD
Columbus, Ohio
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Have I mentioned before that I like JonMyers?

Posted 1 year ago #
rus

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JonMyers wrote >>

Obesity and/ or cancer are more likely to come bustin down your door and accelerate your visit to the grave versuses a meth head.
I've never understood why people obsess over these scenarios that have about the same statistical probability of manifesting as winning the lottery, while the real killers are breathing down their neck.
Imagine if people channeled that fear into something more realistic and productive.

Happened to me twice.

Posted 1 year ago #
TaraK
probably at the coffee shop
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When people talk about being self-sustaining, they don't mean in a post-apocalyptic way.

Have you been reading Atwood?

Posted 1 year ago #
TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
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JonMyers wrote >>

TomOver wrote >>

lifeontwowheels wrote >>
When I owned firearms in the past and when I consider owning in the future it's never been for some wildly fantastic world ending scenario. It's always been for the "meth head kicking my door down at 3 am" scenario.

How is it "wildly fantastic" ? Ecologically, we have desertification, draw down of aquifers, loss of biodiversity, climate disruption, and so on, along with resource problems such as peak oil and natural gas, and perhaps even coal.
On top of that, the US government is heading toward insolvency, and as US political and economic power diminishes, some people in this country may seek scapegoats, leading to political repression and/or civil strife.
No offense, but acting as if none of these challenges will come to a head is , in my opinion, what is 'wildly fantastic."
As for the person on meth doing a home invasion, the likelihood of that scenario may increase as our financially strapped governments cut social spending, regardless of what party is in power.
Then the average citizen will be between the devil and the deep blue sea: a likely increasingly violent under-class on the one hand, and, on the other hand, an increasingly intrusive police state trying to maintain order and/or protect the socio-economic elite.
I think in terms of mitigating these ecological and social problems, not preventing them, and doing so while appreciating the beauty, mystery, and wonder of living.

Obesity and/ or cancer are more likely to come bustin down your door and accelerate your visit to the grave versuses a meth head.
I've never understood why people obsess over these scenarios that have about the same statistical probability of manifesting as winning the lottery, while the real killers are breathing down their neck.
Imagine if people channeled that fear into something more realistic and productive.

My question is basically this.

Among those of us who are growing food or making soap, making clothing, or building straw bale houses, would it make sense for us to extend that DIY philosophy and practice to attempts at being less reliant on the police for public safety ?

And, again, sorry to spoil anybody's day, but to me the evidence indicates a likely disintegration of modern society in the coming decades---not something sudden, but something gradual.

I imagine being wrong about that to be a relief. So, I welcome thoughtful responses to my concerns. Sure, I don't have a crystal ball. But honestly and open-mindedly seeking evidence, processing it and applying it to my life is the best I can do.

Posted 1 year ago #