RSS
Twitter
Facebook
YouTubeManatee: It does makes sense. Actually, there have been studies that fish oil has been highly successful and helping treating bi-polar disorder. Likewise, other studies seem to imply that cultures that eat more fish also suffer less from mental illness. So, who knows?
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion
Getting more environmentalists to think about being vegan
[260 posts] [42 contributors]
Topic Rating:
(Total Ratings: )
Rate this topic:
Rate this topic:
-
manticore33
Delaware, OH
Login to Send PM
Posted 2 years ago # -
duncanfj
Login to Send PM
Manatee wrote >>
duncanfj wrote >>
Skinny_Buddha wrote >>
duncanfj
How often would you suggest meat be consumed for a balanced diet? Purely curious.That's not an easy question to answer. Are you saying meat as a main dish, or meat in the main dish. What do you consider a balanced diet? What the FDA says? I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to make sure we are discussing the same thing.
I think our diets are too refined carb heavy. I also think we do eat too much meat. I know Lisa has been advocating the use of meat in dishes instead of as the dish on her blog, and I agree with that. I think it also should be influenced by lifestyle. Porky, as a bodybuilder, should eat more meat than someone who gets their exercise by walking between the fridge and couch. How much should the average person eat? I'll let you know as soon as I figure out how much I should eat.Sorry to bombard the thread, but this is a topic I've been thinking about a lot lately.
Since our musculature is made largely of protein, it would follow that very physically active people might need more meat protein than sedentary types. But since our nervous systems, joints, and reproductive systems absolutely depend on proper balance of fats, I'd say that's trickier. Even John Q. Couchpotato assumes that he'd like to retain prime mental function, ease of movement and reproductive viability. So fats really seem to be more the crux of the issue, even maybe more than proteins.Manatee, you are right on both accounts. Fats are important, but much like discussing proteins, it is the type of fat that counts. Sat fats and cholesterol have been the whipping boys when it comes to heart disease, obesity, etc, but now data are suggesting those diseases have more to do with refined carbs than fats. But trans fats are bad. Fats from animals raised on grass (or natrual diets) are better for us than animals raised on grain. Trying to decide what we should eat and in what ratios is difficult. And even more confusing when you throw in lobby groups, politicians, etc who have a monetary stake in the debate.
Posted 2 years ago # -
lisathewaitress
SoHud
Login to Send PM
I would still like to hear where these foods are being sourced from.
I don't eat a ton of meat, but so far in life I haven't found a replacement for animal fats and proteins. I tend to be anemic and have to take iron supplements and eat red meat.
Not that I feel the need to justify my eating habits.
the reason I am asking and pressing this point is that a lot - dare I say most - of off-season produce which enters our country from places like Mexico and Chile was harvested by slave labor. Usually even child slave labor.
To me, ending the practice of enslaving children and migrant workers is far, far more important to me than this flippant "eating meat is horrible for the environment."
Posted 2 years ago # -
lisathewaitress
SoHud
Login to Send PM
Come on, I know there are some vegans with follow through skills!
Posted 2 years ago # -
TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
Login to Send PM
Lisa, your radio spots are right after the shows we do on WCRS. Good to see you're part of this discussion. It's not either/or : eat local and address ag. slave labor issue versus eat only veggies while doing nothing to eat local and address slave labor issues.
Can't we do both ? Or do we have to compartmentalize our thinking ? Eating much less meat, if not stopping it, is something many, though not all of us, can do in pretty short order.
By contrast getting all of our food locally, for many of us, requires a bit more work. But it's work I have been doing. Local sourcing of food is, no doubt very important. But you seem to think that it's one approach versus another. The vegetarian/vegan/organic/local food movements can overlap.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Patch
Schumacher Place
Login to Send PM
TomOver wrote >>
Lisa, your radio spots are right after the shows we do on WCRS. Good to see you're part of this discussion. It's not either/or : eat local and address ag. slave labor issue versus eat only veggies while doing nothing to eat local and address slave labor issues.
Can't we do both ? Or do we have to compartmentalize our thinking ? Eating much less meat, if not stopping it, is something many, though not all of us, can do in pretty short order.
By contrast getting all of our food locally, for many of us, requires a bit more work. But it's work I have been doing. Local sourcing of food is, no doubt very important. But you seem to think that it's one approach versus another. The vegetarian/vegan/organic/local food movements can overlap.Can you go into more detail about the "slave labor" issue?
And why you think it is important that people go vegan/vegetarian?
Posted 2 years ago # -
TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
Login to Send PM
Patch, good point about being more detail-oriented about the agriculture slave labor issue. I was referring to what Lisa the Waitress posted.
But I will gladly admit to being wrong if it turns out to be the case that these workers' conditions are something better than slavery. Also, I would be glad to admit that being vegan actually isn't necessary for taking better care of the environment or animals for that matter.
I am not interested in being right, per se. I'm interested in this forum as a way to improve my ability and willingness to follow my conscience. In other words, I can get other people's input and work together with some of the people I meet via this site.
About why it's important (or is NOT important) to go veg/vegan, Google it, do some other research, think about it, and come to your own conclusions.
Posted 2 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
!seabus
Login to Send PM
TomOver wrote >>
About why it's important (or is NOT important) to go veg/vegan, Google it, do some other research, think about it, and come to your own conclusions.I have done a fair amount of thinking on this, and long ago decided that I have no problem with eating some meat that is raised in a healthy manner. That said, I also decided that I didn't need meat for every meal and also didn't want a whole lot of meat.
The other thing I try to do is I try to listen to by body, and I find that want I find my self running low on energy or getting depressed that a good meal that includes piece of meat can and does improve my energy levels and improve my mood. On the other hand sometimes I just want braised kale, shallot and carrot over beans and rice, and that works too.
Posted 2 years ago # -
TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
Login to Send PM
michaelcoyote wrote >>
TomOver wrote >>
About why it's important (or is NOT important) to go veg/vegan, Google it, do some other research, think about it, and come to your own conclusions.I have done a fair amount of thinking on this, and long ago decided that I have no problem with eating some meat that is raised in a healthy manner. That said, I also decided that I didn't need meat for every meal and also didn't want a whole lot of meat.
The other thing I try to do is I try to listen to by body, and I find that want I find my self running low on energy or getting depressed that a good meal that includes piece of meat can and does improve my energy levels and improve my mood. On the other hand sometimes I just want braised kale, shallot and carrot over beans and rice, and that works too.Eating protein-rich foods such as lentils and beans seems to help me with that. Many people seem to focus on what they are NOT eating, instead of focusing on the very many things that someone can eat as a vegan. And yes, this is not an either/or approach.
For example, I bicycle commute, but sometimes I drive. I am wary of focusing on one factor of environmentalism or ethics as if that one thing were all that I should care about. And, sure, there are people who eat meat who I venture are doing many great things that I am not doing. We all can learn from each other.
Posted 2 years ago # -
michaelcoyote
!seabus
Login to Send PM
TomOver wrote >>
michaelcoyote wrote >>
I have done a fair amount of thinking on this, and long ago decided that I have no problem with eating some meat that is raised in a healthy manner. That said, I also decided that I didn't need meat for every meal and also didn't want a whole lot of meat.
The other thing I try to do is I try to listen to by body, and I find that want I find my self running low on energy or getting depressed that a good meal that includes piece of meat can and does improve my energy levels and improve my mood. On the other hand sometimes I just want braised kale, shallot and carrot over beans and rice, and that works too.Eating protein-rich foods such as lentils and beans seems to help me with that. Many people seem to focus on what they are NOT eating, instead of focusing on the very many things that someone can eat as a vegan. And yes, this is not an either/or approach.
Oh believe me, I eat plenty of legumes and grains, but sometimes I need some meat. Other times I wouldn't eat meat if you paid me to eat it.
I'm well aware of the many foods that are available to vegans. I've eaten and enjoy vegan meals, and there are many meals that I make that are vegan friendly, but in general I've just found that I have more energy and less mental fog if I eat meat from time to time. On the other hand if being vegan works for you, go for it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
Login to Send PM
lisathewaitress wrote >>
I would still like to hear where these foods are being sourced from.
I don't eat a ton of meat, but so far in life I haven't found a replacement for animal fats and proteins. I tend to be anemic and have to take iron supplements and eat red meat.
Not that I feel the need to justify my eating habits.
the reason I am asking and pressing this point is that a lot - dare I say most - of off-season produce which enters our country from places like Mexico and Chile was harvested by slave labor. Usually even child slave labor.
To me, ending the practice of enslaving children and migrant workers is far, far more important to me than this flippant "eating meat is horrible for the environment."You're right, my lentils, nuts, beans, amarinth, and other food items that make my vegan diet enjoyable and doable don't all come from around here, to say the least. Some of them might not even grow well around here, for all I know.
And you're right if you mean to say that eating a plant-based diet is not a panacea for what ails us personally or as a civilization.
Yeah sure, I continue to wonder about how feasible my vegan diet would be if I had to source my food 'locally', say within 100 or 200 miles.
But what I am sure of is that I want to continue, for as long as feasible, keeping my money from supporting factory farmed meat and dairy.
As for the enslavement of children and other abuses of people helping to produce our food, is doing something to address those problems necessarily at odds with doing something to address the abuse of our water, our soil, as well as the abuse of cows, chickens, pigs, and other food animals ?
Sounds like yet another false choice such as when some people ask: should we fix the economy or take better care of the environment, should be support civil liberties or support security ?
As for being part of the solution, a vegan way of life is a way of doing less harm, even though it's not, as you point out, a way of doing no harm, and may not even be feasible in all circumstances.
Getting back to the topic of the abuse of migrant workers, well, omnivores still eat fruits, vegetables, and other plant-derived food items, right ?
And regarding plant-based agriculture's impact on habitat and other aspects of the environment, well, don't omnivores indirectly consume more plant-based food than vegans when you account for what goes into feeding chickens, cows, pigs, and other food animals ?
Arguments about how humans may have evolved to consume animal products or about how consuming animals, per se, is not immoral, sort of neglect to call attention to what's---in my opinion---one of the main questions regarding the morality of what we eat: what are we to do about factory farming ?
If we're against factory farming, that would seem to cause many of us to be situational vegans, given that it's not always easy in terms of time, personal energy, and money, to get organic, free-range meat and dairy.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Red Sun Rising
Login to Send PM
Here are several articles that support the idea behind the title of this thread:
Blood and Soil: Lierre Keith, Michael Pollan, and the Trouble with Locavore Politics by John Sanbonmatsu
http://www.zcommunications.org/blood-and-soil-lierre-keith-michael-pollan-and-the-trouble-with-locavore-politics-by-john-sanbonmatsuThe Veganrd- Countering Claims Against Vegan Diets by Ginny Messina
http://www.theveganrd.com/2011/11/countering-claims-against-vegan-diets.html
http://www.wedge.coop/newsletter/august-september-2011/vegan-diets
http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/09/review-of-the-vegetarian-myth.htmlLivestock and Climate Change by The World Watch Institute
http://www.worldwatch.org/files/pdf/Livestock%20and%20Climate%20Change.pdfLivestock’s Long Shadow by The UNFAO
ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/010/a0701e/a0701e00.pdfPutting Meat on the Table by The PEW Commission
http://www.livablefutureblog.com/pdf/Putting_Meat_on_Table_FULL.pdfPosted 5 months ago # -
jbcmh81
Login to Send PM
I wonder if there is such a thing as a vegan or even a vegetarian in a poor country. The concept seems to be entirely born out of the convenience and privilege of having enough wealth and food options that this kind of choice is even viable. I get wanting to be more responsible and environmentally conscious. I get wanting animal farms to be more humane. I don't get veganism as a way of life. And let's be perfectly honest here, vegan food, for the most part, is just awful. I now make my living in the food world, and I don't think anyone who truly appreciates food, and I don't mean from just a practical standpoint, but a real, true appreciation and love for food, could ever limit themselves in that way.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Red Sun Rising
Login to Send PM
If you make your living in food, I would think you would be able to tap a greater imagination in what actually makes it taste good. Herbs? Spices? I'm confused by your statement about veganism being considered some kind of luxury considering many cultures are poorer and subsist primarily on plants, and are excellent at preparing tasty dishes- Indians (India), Ethiopians and Asian foods are quite delicious and often plant based. Those cultures are the genesis of many a vegetarian, considering Jains and Buddhists who believe/observe Ahimsa- do no harm. Animal products have long been regarded as "luxury" because of the excessive resources consumed to produce it. Might I suggest you meet more vegan friends so you can try better vegan food samples? ;-)
http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/your-first-day-as-a-vegan
These guys are a great value for the taste/price. Just don't expect fast food, they prepare everything to order.
http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/loving-hut-new-vegan-restaurant-in-reynoldsburgPosted 5 months ago # -
paktinat
WP
Login to Send PM
jbcmh81 said:
I wonder if there is such a thing as a vegan or even a vegetarian in a poor country.a quick google search USDA estimate 20%–42% of the Indian population as being vegetarian. These surveys indicate that even Indians who do eat meat, do so infrequently, with less than 30% consuming it regularly, although the reasons are partially economical.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Red Sun Rising
Login to Send PM
jbcmh81 said:
I wonder if there is such a thing as a vegan or even a vegetarian in a poor country. The concept seems to be entirely born out of the convenience and privilege of having enough wealth and food options that this kind of choice is even viable. I get wanting to be more responsible and environmentally conscious. I get wanting animal farms to be more humane. I don't get veganism as a way of life. And let's be perfectly honest here, vegan food, for the most part, is just awful. I now make my living in the food world, and I don't think anyone who truly appreciates food, and I don't mean from just a practical standpoint, but a real, true appreciation and love for food, could ever limit themselves in that way.As I slept on your comment, I couldn't help responding to the irony of it when I awoke. You begin by suggesting that veganism/vegetarianism is some sort of elitist privilege, then close by saying you couldn't possibly limit your food appreciation? As in YOUR TASTE BUDS? Starving people, abused animals, environmental destruction impacting ALL OF US be damned? jbcmh81- I think I'm going to save your remark and memorialize it as the poster child of the finest example, the absolute epitome, of the self absorbed, ignorant, privileged foodie elitist snob, if I've ever seen an example in print. If your culinary skills are as limited as your stated imagination or intellectual display, I'd be equally hard pressed imagine anything you create in the kitchen is worth trying. A local, nationally renowned chef, Magdiale Wolmack who owns Dragonfly, a plant based restaurant that is soon to close and reopen as Dynamic Tilth, including animal products (to the chagrin of the vegan community- but not a surprise since he never was a vegan) to follow a shift in his chef interests into Biodynamic Farming. Perhaps he could provide some pointers on how to cook plants, well, if you want to broaden your horizons and prepare yourself for the future. I don't know for sure, but he may be willing to do some consulting. Seriously, take a good look at the grocery market trends and you will see that there is a major change taking place, these "natural markets" sections with plant based analogs in the supermarket are rapidly growing and spreading to all conventional stores. This is for several reasons: rising animal rights (Earthlings, Vegucated) Food justice (Food Inc, King Corn, Fast Food Nation), and the health movement (Eating,Diet for a New America, Forks Over Knives) awareness.
As long as individuals are considered commodities, they will be objectified and abused. It is the reason we abolished human slave laws, because there really was a "humanely" treat your slaves movement then too, but we know that doesn't work. Ancient cultures have long observed nonviolent ethics,and as illustrated above, by paktinat, have massive populations that have been thriving on plant based diets for centuries. Many native South American tribes lived on the triad of nutrition: squash, beans and maize. The indigenous community is even recognizing their disconnect on this issue as we are thinking more about social evolution:
Indigenous veganism: Feminist Natives do eat tofu by Margaret Robinson
http://www.thescavenger.net/animals/indigenous-veganism-feminist-natives-do-eat-tofu-237794-504.htmlSeriously, if you want to succeed in the food industry, you will need to become an expert on preparing delicious vegan food.
Posted 5 months ago # -
gramarye
In Exile
Login to Send PM
Red Sun Rising said:
Seriously, if you want to succeed in the food industry, you will need to become an expert on preparing delicious vegan food.Right, because no one has ever succeeded in the food industry without offering vegan fare.
Incidentally, the only vegan restaurant (VegiTerranean) here in Akron shuttered its doors recently.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Cookie
Flyntonville
Login to Send PM
jbcmh81 said:
And let's be perfectly honest here, vegan food, for the most part, is just awful. I now make my living in the food world, and I don't think anyone who truly appreciates food, and I don't mean from just a practical standpoint, but a real, true appreciation and love for food, could ever limit themselves in that way.Alana's had a delicious vegan menu for Restaurant Week. I would (humanely) kill for that tofu and brussels sprouts recipe.
Posted 5 months ago #
You must log in to post.
Launched in August 2010, TheMetropreneur.com is a local online resource devoted to small business development and entrepreneurship. Its aim is to tell the stories of Central Ohio's business community, foster regional economic development and assist entrepreneurs with its resource-heavy focus.