Getting more environmentalists to think about being vegan

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Getting more environmentalists to think about being vegan

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Started 2 years ago by TomOver
Latest reply from Manatee

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TomOver
herenowbeyond.org
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Does anyone know who is active in greater Columbus in terms of presenting to a diversity of environmental groups info about how veganism connects with addressing not only Climate Change but a variety of other environmental issues ?

Of course, this type of communication does not have to be limited to anthropocentric concerns, but time and again, I encounter people involved with, for example, making transportation or power generation more sustainable, but who have little, if any, involvement with veganism.

Preaching to people doesn't interest me, but there seems to be so much opportunity in terms of people connecting their particular niche of environmentalism with the merits of veganism.

I don't want to limit my focus to only greater Columbus, but a having real-time, in-person dimension to this sort of alliance building matters.

Posted 2 years ago #
Manatee
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Ooooweee, there has been a lot of discussion here roundabout this topic, it's a real hot-button issue.

As for my part, not trying to be a smartass, but I call vegans "city environmentalists". It's the kind of environmentalism that looks good on paper. But I'll say it again: animals and plants raised together on smaller farms is my pick for environmental responsibility.

ETA: TomOver, I think you get the prize for most ambitious new poster!!

Posted 2 years ago #
TomOver
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Manatee wrote >>
Ooooweee, there has been a lot of discussion here roundabout this topic, it's a real hot-button issue.
As for my part, not trying to be a smartass, but I call vegans "city environmentalists". It's the kind of environmentalism that looks good on paper. But I'll say it again: animals and plants raised together on smaller farms is my pick for environmental responsibility.
ETA: TomOver, I think you get the prize for most ambitious new poster!!

Manatee, I am glad you responded. Greetings. But is there enough land, water, and other resources for more than 300 million people to eat the free-range meat products? Say more please, if you have the time, about what you mean by "city environmentalists" and it "looking good on paper."

Posted 2 years ago #
Manatee
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Well, Mr. TomOver, there are literally pages and pages and pages of me going on and on about that on CU, probably more than anyone wanted to read in the first place. But a quick look at any threads involving farming should give a pretty good cross-section of people's views here so far.

I personally think smaller farms incorporating plants and animals would have a limiting effect on our population. And I think a little bit of meat here and there, used judiciously, is a responsible way to eat, environmentally speaking. We tend to forget that meat and animal fat, most particularly when it is raised properly and so has a higher nutrition content, is very concentrated food.

I don't think veganism is out of the question for monastic people, but for people doing hard work everyday... the sort of people running responsibly sustainable farms... I don't think it's realistic or environmentally superior. Just my usual two cents on that matter.

Keep up with the questing posts... are you some kind of questing posts generating machine? ;D

Posted 2 years ago #
rus

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Manatee wrote >>

Keep up with the questing posts... are you some kind of questing posts generating machine? ;D

Kinda makes me wonder if there's a windmill around here somewhere...

Posted 2 years ago #
Manatee
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rus wrote >>

Manatee wrote >>
Keep up with the questing posts... are you some kind of questing posts generating machine? ;D

Kinda makes me wonder if there's a windmill around here somewhere...

Get outta here, Sancho... ;)

Posted 2 years ago #
rus

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Manatee wrote >>

rus wrote >>

Manatee wrote >>
Keep up with the questing posts... are you some kind of questing posts generating machine? ;D

Kinda makes me wonder if there's a windmill around here somewhere...

Get outta here, Sancho... ;)

Oblig:

Posted 2 years ago #
Manatee
The eternal present
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Oh and I've thought of something else.

Our culture has a very unhealthy relationship with death, namely that we wish it would just go away and stop being so gross and icky and stuff. I think a lot of this has to do with our current practice of living far away from where our food, particularly our meat, is raised. And don't kid yourself that eating vegan means animals aren't being killed in the process of growing your veggies.

But veganism, when practiced by physically active people, would probably be self-limiting after a few generations. I don't think the well of accumulated nutrition in most vegan families would last very long before it would limit certain biological processes, first and foremost reproductive health.

I do want to say again that for some people, veganism can be a wonderful option. When thoughtfully and carefully composed of whole foods (read: no Earth Balance et al), and when used as part of a more monastic (read: sedentary) lifestyle, I think it could be very beneficial. Just not for me, and I certainly wouldn't advocate it as being more environmentally responsible.

And just to really be redundant (sorry everyone who's read my tangents on this of late), this is coming from a 10-year vegetarian, 4-year vegan, current omnivore/environmentalist.

Posted 2 years ago #
enzo

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Watch FOOD INC. Manatee you remind me of the sort of Hero Farmer that does everything the old fashioned way....vegetables, animals, in balance and respect to the environment. I am still not keen on eating animals yet, but very much still an advocate of all of us are part and parcel of the entire universe...what we do to the environment we do to ourselves. If we lived in balance with respect to ourselves and the world we live in, sooooo many issues would be eliminated and sure some people might be inconvenienced because they are spoiled and think everything just happens like magic. So much of what industrial farming has done has created the bulk of health problems...it is allllll so intertwined.

Posted 2 years ago #
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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TomOver wrote >> But is there enough land, water, and other resources for more than 300 million people to eat the free-range meat products?

I dunno... Is there enough forest/prairie land left here or in the 3rd world that can be burned to turn it into soybean/grain fields to feed 300 million people 1500-2000 calories/day?

Until vegans start eating raw grass, this will continue to be a HUGE problem with your argument.

Manatee is correct in her thinking, and blindly following the mantra of "vegan is better" ignores a lot of work that suggests that it may NOT be.

Posted 2 years ago #
JedThorp
Merion Village
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TomOver wrote >>
Does anyone know who is active in greater Columbus in terms of presenting to a diversity of environmental groups info about how veganism connects with addressing not only Climate Change but a variety of other environmental issues ?
Of course, this type of communication does not have to be limited to anthropocentric concerns, but time and again, I encounter people involved with, for example, making transportation or power generation more sustainable, but who have little, if any, involvement with veganism.
Preaching to people doesn't interest me, but there seems to be so much opportunity in terms of people connecting their particular niche of environmentalism with the merits of veganism.
I don't want to limit my focus to only greater Columbus, but a having real-time, in-person dimension to this sort of alliance building matters.

Having worked for several environmental groups, I would tell you that most likely agree with the values of veganism, and would agree that veganism helps the environment. However, I'm not sure what you want them to do about it. Most environmental groups have to limit their focus, sometimes very narrowly (depending on the group) due to finite resources. If a donor or a foundation gives you a million dollars to work on climate change policy, that's what you're going to work on (assuming you agree it's an issue.) So, I don't think any of the major environmental groups would disagree with you...it's a matter of resources and what you ask them to focus on.

Posted 2 years ago #
manticore33
Delaware, OH
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TomOver wrote >>

Manatee wrote >>
Ooooweee, there has been a lot of discussion here roundabout this topic, it's a real hot-button issue.
As for my part, not trying to be a smartass, but I call vegans "city environmentalists". It's the kind of environmentalism that looks good on paper. But I'll say it again: animals and plants raised together on smaller farms is my pick for environmental responsibility.
ETA: TomOver, I think you get the prize for most ambitious new poster!!

Manatee, I am glad you responded. Greetings. But is there enough land, water, and other resources for more than 300 million people to eat the free-range meat products? Say more please, if you have the time, about what you mean by "city environmentalists" and it "looking good on paper."

You need to account for the roughly 50 or so percent of food waste that occurs during all stages food production (harvest, processing, transportation, in-store, and at home). If we could more efficiently harvest and utilize our food before it goes to waste, we would and could feed more people using less resources.

Local food production through coops and community supported agriculture is a viable option to satisfy both vegans and omnivores in an environmentally friendly manner. Likewise, eating seasonally would help as well. Do I really need tomatoes grown in Mexico over winter when I could have canned some nice Ohio tomatoes when in season?

Edit: Since we are in the Midwest, what about recouping good farmland used to build homes and subdivisions? As land owners, could we not devote a few square feet to grow vegetables, raise chickens, and etc? Or, container gardening in the city? I know Cafe Bella grows indoor produce in its spare dining area!

So, essentially, I do not think being a vegan will be the biggest benefit from an environmental standpoint, it is how food is produced, how efficient it is used and conserved, and people contributing at the local level to food production.

Posted 2 years ago #
lisathewaitress
SoHud
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i'm just curious about where you think your vegan foods should be sourced from? are you growing your own?

Posted 2 years ago #
gramarye
In Exile
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Yeah, I had similar thoughts: Which is worse for the environment when you count all the links in the chain--Ohio beef or Hawaiian pineapples?

Posted 2 years ago #
claw71

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I like what Anthony Bourdain said: "Vegetarianism [and veganism] is a first world luxury."

The reality of agriculture is that it is not environmentally friendly. Even if you buy 100% of your produce from certified organic producers, you still have issues with deforestation, erosion and run off. Loss prevention sometimes includes brutal tactics such as destroying nearby rabbit warrens and discouraging birds from nesting.

I'm not saying that the organic green beans you're buying cast as much of a shadow as the ground chuck you'll find in Kroger, but the environmental cost is a lot higher than you think.

Veganism as an individual lifestyle choice is fine. Veganism as a cause is another thing all together.

Posted 2 years ago #
UncommonSense
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claw71 wrote >> Veganism as an individual lifestyle choice is fine. Veganism as a cause is another thing all together.

+1

We evolved as omnivores, and protein from meat helped increase our brain size. My question would be, how do vegans get the necessary protein to maintain health? I am completely ignorant on the subject, but am curious because it appears my daughter is trending to vegetarianism or veganism. I want to know what she needs to stay healthy.

Posted 2 years ago #
duncanfj

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UncommonSense wrote >>

claw71 wrote >> Veganism as an individual lifestyle choice is fine. Veganism as a cause is another thing all together.

+1
We evolved as omnivores, and protein from meat helped increase our brain size. My question would be, how do vegans get the necessary protein to maintain health? I am completely ignorant on the subject, but am curious because it appears my daughter is trending to vegetarianism or veganism. I want to know what she needs to stay healthy.

That may depend on what you term as "healthy". The short answer is that you can't stay as healthy when on a plant-based diet. There are essential fats, proteins, etc that you can't get from plants. Supplements can help, but there is a great deal of debate about whether absorbtion from pills is anywhere near as efficient as from food. Now whether most people will notice a difference...perhaps not. I'm not saying that vegans will be pasty and lethargic, just that they may not be as "healthy" as someone eating a proper diet (not to be confused with how most of the people in the US eat). Veganism is fairly new. Long-term studies of its impact on human health are lacking. Just like the impact of high-fructose corn syrup, refined carbs, carb free diets, etc. I think someone who is considering going vegan should find a knowledgeable nutritionist and work with them to make sure their diet choices allow them to live a healthy life.

Posted 2 years ago #
Cookie
Flyntonville
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duncanfj wrote >>
That may depend on what you term as "healthy". The short answer is that you can't stay as healthy when on a plant-based diet. There are essential fats, proteins, etc that you can't get from plants. Supplements can help, but there is a great deal of debate about whether absorbtion from pills is anywhere near as efficient as from food. Now whether most people will notice a difference...perhaps not. I'm not saying that vegans will be pasty and lethargic, just that they may not be as "healthy" as someone eating a proper diet.

What does that even mean? It's not difficult to get enough protein without eating meat. It's present in many foods, and as long as she eats a varied diet, she should be fine. Taking a multivitamin is a good idea for everyone, not just vegetarians. I haven't eaten meat for about 23 years now, and I'm perfectly "healthy."

Posted 2 years ago #
Porky
C-Bus' East Side
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I'm a body builder and trending toward vegetarian diet. I still eat meat but only a couple of times per week...
You can certainly get all the protein you need from other sources. In fact meat is a very poor choice for metabolising protein. Once it's cooked a good amount of the protein is compromised.
Other forms like whey, dairy, and eggs are going to have a higer bioavailbity and as a result more will be incorporated into body tissue.

Posted 2 years ago #
duncanfj

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Porky wrote >>
I'm a body builder and trending toward vegetarian diet. I still eat meat but only a couple of times per week...
You can certainly get all the protein you need from other sources. In fact meat is a very poor choice for metabolising protein. Once it's cooked a good amount of the protein is compromised.
Other forms like whey, dairy, and eggs are going to have a higer bioavailbity and as a result more will be incorporated into body tissue.

Yes, you can get protein from whey, dairy, and eggs, but the discussion was about veganism, so those sources are out. Plant protein is low in some essential amino acids. As for protein being compromised, are you talking about denaturing? That has very little impact on the body's ability to break down the protein into amino acids.

Cookie, as I said, compared to the normal US diet, you probably wouldn't notice any difference in terms of health. And again, as I said, there is a great deal of debate about the absorbtion and utilization of nutrients from pills (like multi-vitamins). Look, diet studies are incredibly difficult to do. We have no idea what the long term effects are of most of the things that are in processed foods. We have no idea what the long term effects are of veganism. 23 years with a sample size of one is not sufficient to say veganism is a good idea for everyone. If it has worked for you, fine. I am not attacking veganism. I don't care what you do or do not eat. I was answering a question posed on here.

Posted 2 years ago #