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The Hill
I would never buy it, but that doesn't make me indifferent.
It has been stated that they would be "farmed" indoors so as to prevent escape, but eggs could be taken just about anywhere...
Columbus Underground Messageboard » General Columbus Discussion » Everyday Chit Chat
Genetically Engineered Salmon
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0Angle
A brewery or my kitchen or my bicycle.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
0Angle
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rus wrote >>
Is there any evidence that this is any less safe than farmed salmon? Or is the opposition just the usual fear mongering?Fish that grows twice as fast could pose a threat to wild salmon competing for food. The safety of ingesting and metabolizing it is a whole 'nother issue that could be addressed by an informed consumer. I'm sure that the inventor is eager to get it on the market, but it seems to merit further examination IMO.
Posted 1 year ago # -
rus
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0Angle wrote >>
rus wrote >>
Is there any evidence that this is any less safe than farmed salmon? Or is the opposition just the usual fear mongering?Fish that grows twice as fast could pose a threat to wild salmon competing for food. The safety of ingesting and metabolizing it is a whole 'nother issue that could be addressed by an informed consumer. I'm sure that the inventor is eager to get it on the market, but it seems to merit further examination IMO.
I've got no particular love for GMO salmon, but no fear of it either. Heck, if it floods the market with inexpensive fish that should reduce prices, which is good for me.
So, there's no evidence of harm? Presumably the FDA has done at least some testing, yes?
Posted 1 year ago # -
rus
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0Angle wrote >>
FDA has no problem, so it must be o.k.!
Should it be labeled as a GMO?Hmmm. I don't really care if it is or isn't.
Sure, some will lose their shit completely at the scary scary thought that fish from a syfy original movie* might end up on their plate. They'd want it labeled and likely only available after signing wavers and shipping / handling it in lead lined containers covered with bio-hazard warnings.
All the better to scare stupid people into not buying it.
On the other hand, why not label it? If someone has legitimate food allergies ( beyond the food scare of the month... think this month is omega-6 fatty acids ) then it could be useful information if they have symptoms beyond hypochondria. More consumer info is generally a good thing provided it's unbiased.
*note the hyperbole...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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nobody thinks these fish will be anything but just "fish". The issue is not a food safety issue (it's really just another species of fish no matter how the genes 'mutated' to produce the species).
The only real issues people in the know are really concerned with are gene drift and competition with native species (these would likely completely out-compete natural salmon) IF they ever got loose.
The company says they are only selling sterilized fish and they will only be used in inland fishfarms. But is that really going to end up being the case? Look at what happened with Asian Carp escaped from fish farms in the south, they're all over the damned place now completely out-competing native species. Look at GM corn and gene drift into weed species and cross pollination with nearby non-GM corn.
Given those problems I'm skeptical of claims they can keep an entire species totally confined, including sperm/eggs in wastewater. If anything the history suggests that it's going to be impossible and escape is pretty much inevitable. It's a huge pandora's box and once it's opened you cannot just put everything back in and close the door, the only thing you can do is make damned sure you know what's going to happen when you open the box.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Mercurius
First Avenue
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As soon as they clone a Copper or Alsek River King Salmon - and make it twice as fatty, I'm all about it. I'll certainly give it a try though. Here's hoping it's delicious.
I'd have to think producing more salmon in the same estuaries (as opposed to destroying more estuaries) isn't a terrible thing. I'm a fan of genetics - but think it should be labeled as GMO and approved by a case by case basis in accordance to the precautionary principle. That said - I'll buy it
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rockmastermike
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Mercurius wrote >>
I'd have to think producing more salmon in the same estuaries (as opposed to destroying more estuaries) isn't a terrible thing.Except they're not. This was being discussed to only be approved for in-land fish farms to prevent the possibility of escape. Fish farms in Pac-NW and others currently producing salmon would NOT be able to use these, so to compete they would almost HAVE to increase their operations.
Hopefully these fish farms would not experience a flood, as is what happened with the Asian Carp...
Posted 1 year ago # -
lisathewaitress
SoHud
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didn't Monsanto once say genetically-engineered corn posed absolutely no danger and that the weeds would never outsmart their Roundup-resistant seeds?
It's this kind of thinking which, left unchecked, could cause us to engineer ourselves into starvation.
I'm not a fearmonger about GMO anything, but it rarely works out the way intended. Unfortunately, as scientists are learning now, we can't outsmart evolution.
I'm not sure they will be "just fish." Consider grass-fed vs. grain-fed cows. Grass fed cows grow more slowly, which gives the meat an entirely different structure. The meat from grass fed cows is far superior (health-wise) to that of grain-fed.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Rockmastermike
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lisathewaitress wrote >>
I'm not sure they will be "just fish." Consider grass-fed vs. grain-fed cows. Grass fed cows grow more slowly, which gives the meat an entirely different structure. The meat from grass fed cows is far superior (health-wise) to that of grain-fed.Well that's a good point, but I think the difference would be more like the differences between different species of fish and so forth. You know what I mean, some taste better than others, some have different fat characteristics, etc. Still really fish. The genes involved come from another fish and a species of eel, apparently. So it's not as if they had implanted a gene from, say, a hemlock tree.
+1 on monsanto completely under-stating the possibility of roundup resistant weed species. It's become a huge issue now in fact. ( http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html ). Although, I'm not sure what the analog would be when applied to fish, it's a good illustration of an unforeseen (except by some few who's warnings were ignored) effects of that kind of mono-cultural agriculture.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Manatee
The eternal present
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The thing we forget about when doing these sorts of magic tricks is that organisms we eat have more than one use. They're not "just food". They fit into the ecosystem in multitudinous and untold ways, some of which we may not even be aware of until we break those relationships. That includes farmed fish, which as some here have mentioned, can become mind-bogglingly invasive.
This kind of thing is really unfortunate. There are much more responsible ways to make more food, and better food. When I see a large percentage of grain farmers growing perennial or biennial polycultures, and see more people using permaculture to farm, that's when the good stuff will really be happening. More food, better food. Things which enrich the system as a whole, instead of (as usual) just making more of the single end product we want at the expense and degradation of the system.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Tenzo
Chicago Lakeshore
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The company says they are only selling sterilized fish and they will only be used in inland fish farms
Wasn't that the premise for Jurassic Park?
My sister was on the team that developed the 'McGregor' tomato.
They took a fish gene and spliced it into a tomato. The trait brought across was the ability for some fish to go into hibernation when the steam dried up and then come out when there was water.So you had a tomato that could sit on your kitchen counter for weeks.
I thought it was a great improvement over the super ball hard tomatoes you get in the market that are made that hard so you could put them in boxes. Normal tomatoes can't be put in a crate as the ones in the bottom would get crushed.Posted 1 year ago # -
0Angle
A brewery or my kitchen or my bicycle.
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From the L.A. Times;
Chassy said later that the FDA may settle on a labeling program similar to that used for milk: It could allow fish producers to label their salmon as non-genetically engineered as long as they included a disclaimer that the FDA considers the altered fish no different from ordinary salmon.Better than no labels?
Posted 1 year ago # -
KSquared
Literally Hell
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Manatee wrote >>
The thing we forget about when doing these sorts of magic tricks is that organisms we eat have more than one use. They're not "just food". They fit into the ecosystem in multitudinous and untold ways, some of which we may not even be aware of until we break those relationships. That includes farmed fish, which as some here have mentioned, can become mind-bogglingly invasive.
This kind of thing is really unfortunate. There are much more responsible ways to make more food, and better food. When I see a large percentage of grain farmers growing perennial or biennial polycultures, and see more people using permaculture to farm, that's when the good stuff will really be happening. More food, better food. Things which enrich the system as a whole, instead of (as usual) just making more of the single end product we want at the expense and degradation of the system.+1
Posted 1 year ago #
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