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Gas Tax Alternatives--Big Brother?

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Started 3 years ago by thefightinglibrarian
Latest reply from drew

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gas
taxes

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thefightinglibrarian
Running after the 'Bus
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I was listening to NPR on the way home today, and heard a report from what I thought was the Statehouse News Bureau about the proposed gas tax. (I looked on their website but couldn't find the transcript- did anyone else hear this?)

At any rate, Strickland is widely reported as opposing the 13 cent increase because of the recession. Fine. Then the reporter said something like: "An alternative would be to impose higher taxes on people who drive more, because those drivers cause the most wear and tear on the road system." Fair enough. But, and this is when I almost drove off the road, she went on to say something along the lines of: "although the technology is still being perfected, the government would use GPS or implant a chip in your car to determine how far you drive and tax you accordingly."

I'm sorry... plant a chip in my car??? Track me via GPS??? Where I drive is none of the government's business. I would happily indicate on my tax forms how many miles a year I drive, but no one is putting a chip in my car if I can help it.

How do other people feel about this? And why can't I find anything about it in the Dispatch or other local news sources?

Posted 3 years ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Ehhh.

If anything needs to change it's creating a tax system that spreads the money more evenly amongst all infrastructure projects.

In a sense the system already taxes a driver based on the amount they drive. The more you fill your tank the more tax you pay, right?

I know NYC had their congestion tax shot down, at least the last I had heard. Congestion tax is another way, but is hard to implement if you don't have a good alternative for someone to avoid the tax.

Posted 3 years ago #
Roland
Clintonville
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There is no way to reasonably implement such a crazy idea like that. So I'm not worried about it happening.

On a side-note, there is a gas guzzler tax for new cars purchased that get less than 22.5 MPG. Of course, SUVs are excluded. :/

Posted 3 years ago #
Bear
The woods
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lifeontwowheels wrote >>
In a sense the system already taxes a driver based on the amount they drive. The more you fill your tank the more tax you pay, right?

Approximately... though if you're trying to tax in proportion to wear and tear on the roads, a gas tax lets Prius drivers get away with murder. You'd be better off taxing new tires, or oil changes, or timing belts... anything that's tied more directly to miles driven.

But I'm with RoRo, hard to imagine it at present. Now, if terrorists fly planes into the Sears Tower, or there's a rash of child abductions, all bets are off.... :-S

Posted 3 years ago #
mitchellosu
Merion Village
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If anyone thought that this would ever fly as constitutional, I would think that small business owners and others who keep track of miles to deduct the mileage on their taxes would have been required to do so long ago. I would think that since it's such an obvious idea to use to keep people honest on mileage, the only reason it hasn't been tried is because it is blatantly unconstitutional.

BUT
GPS monitoring, in various courts, has been upheld for use on sex offenders an in some jurisdictions, surreptitious GPS use by police has been upheld. Also, Oregon is considering the same thing.

Posted 3 years ago #
drew

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Bear wrote >> Approximately... though if you're trying to tax in proportion to wear and tear on the roads, a gas tax lets Prius drivers get away with murder.

...although it's probably worth noting that the weight of a car influences it's contribution to wear and tear, with a 2900lb Prius treading much more lightly than a 7800lb Hummer.

Still, Priii(?) and the like are the nut of the problem - the trend towards higher efficiency vehicles is diminishing gas tax income, so time for a plan B. Oregon's governor has proposed it's version of a GPS tax plan with that concern in mind:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/31/oregon-governor-looking-at-gps-based-mileage-tax-to-fund-roads/

Posted 3 years ago #
somertimeoh
Harrison West
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I don't know why we can't do something like they do in Europe where you have to have a pass to travel on congested roads at certain times. Works similarly to a toll tag in the sense that if it's important to you to travel a certain route to and from work then you pay for that convenience. Otherwise, you take alternate routes which may or may not make your commute longer.

If the push is that we all need to be driving more fuel efficient cars to save our earth, and that comes at the expense of tax revenue to maintain the roads, than it is revenue the gov't should somehow recuperate.

Posted 3 years ago #
Coremodels
Really close to Explorer's Club.
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bah, just charge a 100 dollar "infrastructure tax" on new car purchases.

1.6 billion a year isn't chump change.

Posted 3 years ago #
somertimeoh
Harrison West
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Oh, well if that covers the gap, then yes that seems much easier.

Posted 3 years ago #
Coremodels
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I have no idea if it does, but something like that just seems like a better alternative to me...not to mention, the administrative costs of trying to do the GPS tax thing would eat up a bunch of the tax itself.

Posted 3 years ago #
somertimeoh
Harrison West
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Oh no, the GPS thing is just stupid. But I have no problem with fees associated with driving on certain roads. It was a way of life for me for many years and the convenience and benefit of driving on incredibly maintained roads far outweighed the cost.

Posted 3 years ago #
drew

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somertimeoh wrote >>
Oh, well if that covers the gap, then yes that seems much easier.

Simple would be wonderful. It's disturbing to me that Oregon's governor would prefer instead to do something that would require additional tax revenues just to pay for GPS units for every car in the state.

But, hey, why not? After all, it's not his money...

Posted 3 years ago #
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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lol GPS

I see nothing but a lot of clipped antenna wires and gps receivers that can no longer recieve time signals from satellites...

Posted 3 years ago #
somertimeoh
Harrison West
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drew wrote >>

somertimeoh wrote >>
Oh, well if that covers the gap, then yes that seems much easier.

Simple would be wonderful. It's disturbing to me that Oregon's governor would prefer instead to do something that would require additional tax revenues just to pay for GPS units for every car in the state.
But, hey, why not? After all, it's not his money...

Oh sorry, I was responding to Core about the adding $100 to new car purchases.

Posted 3 years ago #
drew

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somertimeoh wrote >>

drew wrote >>

somertimeoh wrote >>
Oh, well if that covers the gap, then yes that seems much easier.

Simple would be wonderful. It's disturbing to me that Oregon's governor would prefer instead to do something that would require additional tax revenues just to pay for GPS units for every car in the state.
But, hey, why not? After all, it's not his money...

Oh sorry, I was responding to Core about the adding $100 to new car purchases.

I got that, and was agreeing with you (and him).

Posted 3 years ago #
somertimeoh
Harrison West
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OK, I'm a weeeetard. Feel free to knock me upside the head later :)

Posted 3 years ago #
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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interesting that nobody has pointed out that GPS recievers can also obviously calculate position and speed(most consumer units are accurate to ~.1mph).

So not only could they send you a bill for your distance, but also one for every time you exceed the speed limit on any road you drive on.

Gonna put a lot of radar cops out of work.

Posted 3 years ago #
joev
Merion Village
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What's the problem with the gas tax? Heavy users of heavy vehicles pay more already. Seems like it works OK, and if we need more money and want to curb the amount people drive unnecessarily, raising it is a no-brainer. Best to raise it while gas is cheap so people can adjust accordingly. Of course raising taxes sounds bad. But I think it's better than burying the true costs of things in sneaky fees.

Posted 3 years ago #
Rockmastermike
CORNspiracy HQ
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joev wrote >>
What's the problem with the gas tax? Heavy users of heavy vehicles pay more already. Seems like it works OK, and if we need more money and want to curb the amount people drive unnecessarily, raising it is a no-brainer. Best to raise it while gas is cheap so people can adjust accordingly. Of course raising taxes sounds bad. But I think it's better than burying the true costs of things in sneaky fees.

I agree 100%

Posted 3 years ago #
HeySquare
German Village
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The origin of this gas tax debate starts with a report from a state task force on 21st Century Transportation that just came out. The Governor created a panel to issue a report on the transportation needs of the state for the next century. It's well worth reading. There is a tremendous focus on creating intermodal transportation solutions; however, funding these projects is of course always the issue.

I wonder why we don't pay a percentage tax on gas like we do on everything else? (i.e. a 5% tax rather than the $0.13 per gallon) The price per gallon tax has crippled transportation funding this year, because people are using less gas, and so tax revenue has been WAY down on gas. As prices rose, tax revenue actually went DOWN. As prices rise, people would pay more tax... so I suppose that's been the problem, but... the current system isn't working well. And the cost of implementing a chip system would be astronomical. As well as infringing on civil liberities, as the FightingLibrarian noted.

Posted 3 years ago #