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Welfare in Ohio - News & Updates

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Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 144 total)
#496998

Oak
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Ok, let me respond to a couple of those points:
1) Probable cause and self incrimination are criminal law terms, not civil or administrative terms. The results of the drug test will not result in criminal charges, just administrative sanctions (denial of access to services) so probable cause and self incrimination are moot.
2)Children unfortunately suffer the fools of their parents. The luxury of choice can only be given to the parents. The courts have held that in loco parentis (in the place of the parent) only applies in certain situations, so the child cannot be materially separated form the parent unless exigent circumstance exists.
3)Well there are really two ideologies to consider here – both of which I addressed in a previous post. The idea of “public good” has both social (non-fiscal) value and maybe quantifiable fiscal value. Truncated from my previous post, if we were able to dispel the myth of the welfare druggie, doesn’t that have public good? If there were short term costs to a larger public good, doesn’t that have value? I think it’s difficult to put a true cost-to-benefit value on this situation. There can be value, but quantifying it as a budget line item isn’t exactly linear. For example, I believe that gay marriage is “good” but what are “costs” both socially and fiscally of allowing it to happen (my guess is none but others disagree) and what are the “benefits” to society (plenty I would think, but I don’t have any data to support that) both socially and fiscally – this too is a non-linear “public good” debate.
With there being no empirical data (I won’t accept Florida’s data. As a sociologist I can’t accept Florida’s data set as representative of Ohio)is it possible to get a good representative set without undue consequence? If let people volunteer to give samples, then the data set is already biased and has to be disclosed as such. With there being 3 test counties, I think that might be the only direction to go before rolling it out statewide.

#497000
rustbelt
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So here is something that I can’t quite understand. How is asking people who want something to give something?

You start from the premise this whole scheme makes sense. It’s nothing more than distracting voters and people with class warfare while legislators rob us blind and screw things up. (Perhaps they ran out of things to blame on Mexicans).

If they were truly serious, they would talk about drug testing students receiving financial aid via the state, people receiving money via Third Frontier, CEOs receiving tax breaks and tax abatements, people receiving unemployment and Medicaid, and the numerous other ways people get money and benefits from the government.

In addition, it makes no sense. The money to set up and/or strengthen the various bureaucracies to implement and operate the program will cost far more than any money the state will recoup. All while the state cuts money for drug treatment programs.

I don’t feel degraded when I take a drug test for work either in the private sector or the government sector. It’s just a part of the process. I don’t feel like my “right” to privacy is being invaded in the least.

Just because you do not take personal privacy and the Fourth Amendment seriously does not mean the rest of us feel the same way. So long as I do my job well and/or do not infringe upon anyone’s safety, it is simply no one’s business what I put into my own body.

Yes, some employees have to take drug tests. As well as some students. And various others.

I prefer to ask why we currently drug test so many people instead of asking how we make the list even more expansive.

#497001

local champion
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Seems like a lot of people do not have much contact with those that receive food stamps if they believe it is a myth that food stamp recipients trade benefits for cash or drugs. It happens all the time.

#497002
rus
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local champion said:
Seems like a lot of people do not have much contact with those that receive food stamps if they believe it is a myth that food stamp recipients trade benefits for cash or drugs. It happens all the time.

No question.

Would spending money to detect drug abuse be more than the amount lost to such fraud?

#497003

local champion
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rus said:
No question.

Would spending money to detect drug abuse be more than the amount lost to such fraud?

Maybe, maybe not. I have not done enough research to give you an answer. I have just read a lot of comments about the “myth of welfare queens”.

#497004
Graybeak
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