Downtown 2010 Plan Idea #4 - Broad Street « Columbus Underground Messageboard

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Downtown 2010 Plan Idea #4 - Broad Street

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Started 2 years ago by Walker
Latest reply from Pickerington_Kyle

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lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Walker wrote >>

lifeontwowheels wrote >>
I am saying that we should spend the money developing and utilizing the strength of our current infrastructure, the alternative secondary roads that exist along most of the major corridors, to accomplish what these smaller projects are striving for.

I totally agree that Town/Bryden and Oak would make great bike-corridors.
That said, I still think Broad Street should be narrowed for auto traffic. That's the real project here. Whether that means wider sidewalks for pedestrians only or slower pathways for both bikes and pedestrians or dedicated bike lanes is the detail work.
If the bike community doesn't want to see bike lanes on Broad, then I'm totally game for submitting my feedback saying they should be pedestrian-only sidewalks.

I can get behind the road diet and better pedestrian facilities as it will ultimately make that corridor better for all users.

You know what would be a better idea? With the wider sidewalks you could create some well designed and efficent bus stops. Have a curb cut and island a bus could pull between to allow traffic to pass much easier and facilitate easier boardings.

ETA

Or screw that...why not a tree line bus boulevard? In place of the space where the cyclist and dad with the stroller are, have an express bus lane down Broad.

Posted 2 years ago #
Displaced Columbusite

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Core_Models wrote >>

Displaced Columbusite wrote >>

joev wrote >>
How about a bus rapid transit development like Cleveland's Euclid Ave.?

I am skeptical about this, since they have redone the routes, the "healthline" busses that run on the Euclid corridor are mostly empty, they run a bus something like every 5 minutes and sometimes there are 3 in a row with no passengers that the city is largely subsidizing. Not to harp on the subject, but waste of resources.

Again, people need to stop seeing BRT (or rail) as purely a mode of transit. Once they do, they'll stop counting heads on the bus and start counting dollars instead.
http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/2008/02/euclid_corridor_project_helps.html

Amid all the bad news about Cleveland's economy, one big, positive number is sure to impress all but the most hardened cynics: $4.3 billion. That's how much fresh investment -- conservatively speaking -- is being poured into the four-mile-long strip of land flanking Euclid Avenue, the city's Main Street, between Public Square and University Circle.
One big reason for the energy is the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority's $200 million Euclid Corridor project, which is reshaping Euclid Avenue around a bus rapid transit line.

I am aware of why these projects get done and fully agree with the premise of doing them; however...

The downtown area that is being discussed on Broad Street is not in need of redevelopment (btw, I like the idea of redoing the street the way they are talking about and support it). The Euclid corridor is one of the most dilapidated areas of Cleveland, nothing like Broad Street. My whole point was that putting these giant double length busses on broad street and running them every 5 minutes will be nothing but a waste of resources b/c the city's point would't be to redevelop a dilapidated area such as Cleveland is trying to do but would just increase the number of busses on a street that doesn't need it, if it were in an are that was in need of redevelopment and this was the anchor to do it, I would get behind the idea (such as running them from one side of the city to the other which may in fact help some ares on the west and east sides).

Posted 2 years ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Displaced Columbusite wrote >>
The downtown area that is being discussed on Broad Street is not in need of redevelopment.

I agree that the Downtown stretch of Broad is hardly the worst street in the city, and it does have a high concentration of offices and workers... but otherwise it's pretty lifeless from the sidewalk. Retail is limited to a few small pockets of lunch-only restaurants with a couple of destination locations for entertainment like Palace or The CMA.

Otherwise, I think it's hardly representative of being the major E-W spine of our city.

Posted 2 years ago #
Displaced Columbusite

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Walker wrote >>

Displaced Columbusite wrote >>
The downtown area that is being discussed on Broad Street is not in need of redevelopment.

I agree that the Downtown stretch of Broad is hardly the worst street in the city, and it does have a high concentration of offices and workers... but otherwise it's pretty lifeless from the sidewalk. Retail is limited to a few small pockets of lunch-only restaurants with a couple of destination locations for entertainment like Palace or The CMA.
Otherwise, I think it's hardly representative of being the major E-W spine of our city.

I agree with what you are saying there and I think the way they are talking about redoing the street in the article will help that, but I am unsure if you think the giant bus line is a good idea.

If you are agreeing with the OP and saying that putting in a euclid corridor like line in on Broad Street would pull in ppl to the area, I agree, it probably would. However that can be said of almost any street downtown; if the city came out and said we want Broad Street to be the street and we are going to put in this hefty bus line that will spark redevelopment on the west side and the east side with the nice little consequence of building up the downtown area of Broad Street, I would say great, do it.

However in a city the size of Columbus, that cannot be done on two different strips economically feasibly (one of the strips will not develop). If the city wants it to be High Street--which seems to be the case--it cannot also be done on Broad (at least not for a while). Cleveland has a metropolitan population double the size of Columbus (yes, columbus city is bigger, but this is because of city lines) and it is only attempting it in one location--one of the worst areas in the city to spark redevelopment, not just make it a little nicer.

So, in summary :) I am a liking the original idea of making the downtown area of Broad Street pedestrian friendly, but it needs to stop there--for now. In my opinion, the city cannot sustain the giant costs of making two of these giant--this is our main street--types of mass transit routes (other than the depot on Broad), as one of the development goals will not come to fruition because we simply do not have the population or demand for it. Get High Street all up and running and then we can discuss doing the same to Broad.

Apologies for the long winded response.

Posted 2 years ago #
Displaced Columbusite

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Core_Models wrote >>

Displaced Columbusite wrote >>

joev wrote >>
How about a bus rapid transit development like Cleveland's Euclid Ave.?

I am skeptical about this, since they have redone the routes, the "healthline" busses that run on the Euclid corridor are mostly empty, they run a bus something like every 5 minutes and sometimes there are 3 in a row with no passengers that the city is largely subsidizing. Not to harp on the subject, but waste of resources.

Again, people need to stop seeing BRT (or rail) as purely a mode of transit. Once they do, they'll stop counting heads on the bus and start counting dollars instead.
http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/2008/02/euclid_corridor_project_helps.html

Amid all the bad news about Cleveland's economy, one big, positive number is sure to impress all but the most hardened cynics: $4.3 billion. That's how much fresh investment -- conservatively speaking -- is being poured into the four-mile-long strip of land flanking Euclid Avenue, the city's Main Street, between Public Square and University Circle.
One big reason for the energy is the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority's $200 million Euclid Corridor project, which is reshaping Euclid Avenue around a bus rapid transit line.

I forgot part of what I was saying (got lost in my own thoughts, seems to happen quite a bit), also wanted to mention that the RTA doesn't need to run 3-5 of those giant buses back to back every 5 minutes with no one on them in order to get the development going. Putting the line in will get the development going, then send more buses to the route when the demand actually calls for it; until then it is wasting dollars not building them.

Posted 2 years ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Displaced Columbusite wrote >>
I agree with what you are saying there and I think the way they are talking about redoing the street in the article will help that, but I am unsure if you think the giant bus line is a good idea.

I don't think the BRT on Broad is a good idea (although I could be proven wrong with a sound study behind the argument).

I think the #10 is fine as is with a few improvements for accessibility and timeliness (bumpouts and synced lights and whatnot) but that's the same sort of thing that COTA could benefit from on every street.

Posted 2 years ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Some great follow up on this thread from the folks at MSI:

Walker Evans: One of the most widely discussed ideas on Columbus Underground after the public meeting was the Broad Street Revamp.

Keith Myers: Yeah, we read all of that feedback! Ha! Having someone on a bike in that rendering was actually a last minute decision. The rendering was already done and then we pulled it back out and said, yeah, letÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s add a guy on a bike in there, and then I read all of the discussion that spawned from that and was quite amused. ThereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s been a really informed discussion about that actually, and I enjoy the debate and the back and forth.

READ MORE: http://www.columbusunderground.com/planning-downtown-with-msi-design-part-2

Posted 2 years ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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The deadline to submit input on these ideas is April 30th. Here's a direct link to the survey for this specific idea:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PDKTJW8

Copying and pasting my thoughts that I'm submitting:

I like the idea of all Downtown streets going on a "road diet". Gay Street and a few others are already great example of how this can be achieved not only for aesthetic improvements but also in contributing to the return of retail and residential development. Broad Street sorely needs this treatment. Creating a promenade that extends from the Hilltop to Bexley would be idea, but Downtown is a good place to start. My only concern is that on-street parking be kept available in most areas of Broad Street or else it may suffer the same fate that High Street currently faces with a lack of on-street parking. The original design of the old medians on Historic Broad allowed for a divider for parking. Retaining this type of on-street parking may be critical for some businesses to thrive through the core of Downtown on Broad.

Posted 2 years ago #
deraj1013
Merion Village
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From the Dispatch...

Planners consider narrowing Broad Street, opening up High Street

By Robert Vitale

The decades-old push to revitalize Downtown Columbus has focused at various times on office towers, shopping malls, condo conversions and new parks and plazas.

Now, some say, the effort to breathe life back into the area should focus on the streets themselves. And the two that define Downtown, they contend, are riddled with mistakes from the past.

Read more

Posted 1 year ago #
fringeoutfitters
Columbus reviving its urban core
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deraj1013 wrote >>
From the Dispatch...
Planners consider narrowing Broad Street, opening up High Street
By Robert Vitale
The decades-old push to revitalize Downtown Columbus has focused at various times on office towers, shopping malls, condo conversions and new parks and plazas.
Now, some say, the effort to breathe life back into the area should focus on the streets themselves. And the two that define Downtown, they contend, are riddled with mistakes from the past.
[url=http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/03/07/planners-consider-narrowing-broad-street-
opening-up-high-street.html?sid=101]Read more[/url]

+1 to this moving along. I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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So... there's no update then?

Posted 1 year ago #
colrex7
Ohio
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If the bus lanes and transit mall are eliminated...then a bus transit center should be built on High Street. Taking away mass transit infrastructure is not a solution to making High Street better. The buses bring business to High Street as well.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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colrex7 wrote >>
If the bus lanes and transit mall are eliminated...then a bus transit center should be built on High Street. Taking away mass transit infrastructure is not a solution to making High Street better. The buses bring business to High Street as well.

That's the plan:

http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/downtown-2010-plan-idea-6-bus-transit-station

Posted 1 year ago #
tree_sketcher
Columbus
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different approach to a similar corridor in Detroit. If nothing else, the video is worth it.

Get the Video Plugin

Posted 1 year ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

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Downtown Plan for streets are moving forward

Posted 1 month ago #
Stephen43215
Downtown
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Nice!! Any change would be a huge improvement! It would be nice if the Broad Street planned stretched to Franklin Park on the east side.

Posted 1 month ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

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Stephen43215 said:
Nice!! Any change would be a huge improvement! It would be nice if the Broad Street planned stretched to Franklin Park on the east side.

Heck yea.

Posted 1 month ago #
NerosNeptune
Goodale Park
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Seems like a natural place for it to go to. The bike lane could start where the alum creek path comes out on Broad.

Posted 1 month ago #
bldng4jstc
Downtown
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Better not be more than $200 to plan for "allowing two-way traffic on N. Front Street". Should have been done with the rest, but we all know the benefits of two-way are minimal without fancy lamp posts and brick center lanes...

I'm hopeful about plans for Broad, but I fear it's gonna involve too high a level of fail for me to handle. I hope I'm wrong.

Posted 1 month ago #
Pickerington_Kyle

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I hope every idea of the 2010 plan comes into effect.

Posted 1 month ago #