Downtown 2010 Plan Idea #4 - Broad Street « Columbus Underground Messageboard

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Downtown 2010 Plan Idea #4 - Broad Street

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Started 1 year ago by Walker
Latest reply from tree_sketcher

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Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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Redefine Broad Street as the Civic Spine of the City
Main CU Feature: 12 Ideas Laid Out for Downtown 2010 Strategic Plan

Historically, Broad Street has acted as the civic spine for the City of Columbus. As such, Broad Street used to have a streetscape that reflected its importance. Today, Broad Street at eight lanes across, is as wide as SR 315. While the mansions have been replaced by office towers, there is still an opportunity to restore the grandeur to this once majestic street.

Utilizing the same right of way that is available today, this concept for Broad Street removes travel lanes to create additional space for pedestrians, bicyclists and landscaping on both sides of the street. This is more than a street, it is a linear park of usable green space that activates the streetscape and enhances property values. Running from the Scioto River to the Near East Side, this is an essential east-west connection. By widening the sidewalk and adding landscaping, this new streetscape can accommodate not only pedestrians, but also bicyclists. Added trees and green space could also be designed to manage stormwater runoff, making Broad Street the most sustainable street in the Midwest.

MORE HERE: http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/plan/broad-street

Posted 1 year ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Yes on improving Broad Street but I don't know if I am sold on the bike idea. What if I need to make a left onto a side road? Looks like there may be some curb cuts to allow access out but that means I have to negotiate parked cars and oncoming traffic and buses vs. taking the lane and safely merging.

Posted 1 year ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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I'd like to see a more detailed plan view of that cycle track. Like Andrew, I have some concerns.

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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There is no detailed plan yet. We're supposed to be making it happen! ;)

Follow the link in the original post and share your concerns and ideas.

Posted 1 year ago #
Nitsud Regnifloh
Valerio Heights
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I see your concern with bike riding through Broad, but aesthetically, i am very pleased at least with the direction they plan to go. 8 lanes of traffic in and out is unnecessary and half the time not all lanes are even used during rush hour.

Bringing some of Old Columbus back to the downtown area would be a nice contrast to the Broad/High development. oooooh, shiny.

Posted 1 year ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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Walker wrote >>
There is no detailed plan yet. We're supposed to be making it happen! ;)
Follow the link in the original post and share your concerns and ideas.

Done. Overall I am happy that the city is putting greater attention on cycling, I am just concerned it won't be done "right".

Posted 1 year ago #
jfellrath
Clintonville
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I always rankle whenever I see the city talking about putting in bike lanes and the like, for the reason that lifeontwowheels points out. Most bike infrastructure steps such as bike lanes, paths, etc. are great for recreational cyclists but not so much for people who are actually trying to get somewhere. They also create the impression among some that those lanes/paths/etc. are where cyclists are "supposed" to be, instead of being places where cyclists can supposedly ride more safely and cars are not allowed.

That being said, narrowing the lanes and creating a road diet will slow things down on the main drag and make it more attractive and easier for travel by cyclists.

Fewer lanes means fewer lanes for a cyclist to have to cross in order to turn left, which increases safety for the cyclists. I'd also be in favor of removing street parking altogether in that section of town to remove the danger of being doored. Lowering the speed limit and putting in some red-light cameras at all the intersections would also help. Of course, it all means very little if enforcement of the speed limit doesn't take place, but it's a start.

Posted 1 year ago #
psgorder

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I think the proposed redesign looks great. Having a bike path completely separate from the cars is the safest way to go, and it looks like that's what they're doing here. To turn left, a cyclist would just have to stop at the intersection and wait for the light to change, like a pedestrian on the same path would. I don't have a problem with that, but then I'm just a recreational cyclist. :-)

Posted 1 year ago #
Walker
The KLD / Downtown
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What do you guys think of the median-separated bike lanes in NYC? That's what this idea reminds me of, except prettier. ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/2660998236/

Posted 1 year ago #
joev
Merion Village
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How about a bus rapid transit development like Cleveland's Euclid Ave.?

Posted 1 year ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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psgorder wrote >>
I think the proposed redesign looks great. Having a bike path completely separate from the cars is the safest way to go, and it looks like that's what they're doing here. To turn left, a cyclist would just have to stop at the intersection and wait for the light to change, like a pedestrian on the same path would. I don't have a problem with that, but then I'm just a recreational cyclist. :-)

Frankly there are better paths for rec cyclists than Broad.

Separation really isn't all that safe since it takes you away from the line of sight for motorists, couple that with speeds greater than a pedestrian, and you have some interesting and potentially dangerous moments when a vehicle is making a left or right onto a side street and the bike is on a tree lined separate path with the right of way.

I'm not totally against infrastructure in general. The problem I have is that so much focus is placed on the physical part with no value or effort placed on outreach and education so motorists and cyclists know how to use the new infrastructure. Under ORC (pretty cure, or it's city) a motor vehicle-after checking and safely merging-can turn right onto a side road from an on road bike lane. And a cyclist is given the right under city code to leave said lane for whatever reason.

Without making this type of knowledge widespread, we run the risk of creating potential conflicts and dangerous interactions between the modes. Instead of real conversation, the infrastructure advocates tend to use loaded terms and set it up as a class issue between elite road cyclists and Joe 10 speed using the bike lane.

Posted 1 year ago #
colrex7
Ohio
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Eventually that right of way could be used for a streetcar that rolls right into Bexley and Whitehall. I'm sure Broad Street used to have a street car that went up there anyway. It's hard to say now...but I can see a streetcar doing well on E. Broad Street. But I suppose a study would need to be done.

Posted 1 year ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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Walker wrote >>
What do you guys think of the median-separated bike lanes in NYC? That's what this idea reminds me of, except prettier. ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/2660998236/

I want to see crash data from NYC first.

joev wrote >>
How about a bus rapid transit development like Cleveland's Euclid Ave.?

I was thinking the same thing. The ROW on Euclid is mostly 99' (1.5 chains). The downtown section of Broad appears to be about 120'. So you should be able to do the same thing Euclid did, but then add a second 10' wide travel lane in each direction.

Posted 1 year ago #
Analogue Kid
5th by West-Northwest
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johnwirtz wrote >>

Walker wrote >>
What do you guys think of the median-separated bike lanes in NYC? That's what this idea reminds me of, except prettier. ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/2660998236/

I want to see crash data from NYC first.

joev wrote >>
How about a bus rapid transit development like Cleveland's Euclid Ave.?

I was thinking the same thing. The ROW on Euclid is mostly 99' (1.5 chains). The downtown section of Broad appears to be about 120'. So you should be able to do the same thing Euclid did, but then add a second 10' wide travel lane in each direction.

I dont think BRT is a good idea there. Remember that historically E Broad Street never had a streetcar and thus doesnt have the density of the Euclid corridor.

Posted 1 year ago #
johnwirtz
Evanston, IL
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Analogue Kid wrote
I dont think BRT is a good idea there. Remember that historically E Broad Street never had a streetcar and thus doesnt have the density of the Euclid corridor.

That's a fair point. The other problem is that the ROW narrows east of I-71 and west of the river, so you're probably limited to just the downtown area before the buses would switch back to the outer lanes.

I was thinking of it more as a way to create dedicated bus lanes downtown than doing the whole corridor with left-hand stops. Maybe some fancier right-hand stops and pre-paid boarding would be just as good though?

Posted 1 year ago #
alove
Downtown
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YES YES YES! Separate bike lanes like in Amsterdam!!! We can do better than those NYC ones.
Love it, love it, love it.

Posted 1 year ago #
futureman
Grandview Heights
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I'm very much for it as a cyclist. I typically will do 20-40 miles in a trip around town and I take broad street a lot to get to alum creek trail. If anything this could serve a connector between the olentangy and alum creek trails. I hate the I-670 trail with a **passion**, two flat tires, very loud and in general in just bad shape. It's also the only East to West trail out there in Columbus.

From a "trail" perspective I'm all for it, but as other pointed as a bike lane it could cause problems.

Given my use of broad st - only really going east/west not really turning ever I'd get behind this idea. Cars do travel rather fast in addition you have to deal with COTA busses stopping all the time.

Posted 1 year ago #
lifeontwowheels
Highland West
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futureman wrote >>
I'm very much for it as a cyclist. I typically will do 20-40 miles in a trip around town and I take broad street a lot to get to alum creek trail. If anything this could serve a connector between the olentangy and alum creek trails. I hate the I-670 trail with a **passion**, two flat tires, very loud and in general in just bad shape. It's also the only East to West trail out there in Columbus.
From a "trail" perspective I'm all for it, but as other pointed as a bike lane it could cause problems.
Given my use of broad st - only really going east/west not really turning ever I'd get behind this idea. Cars do travel rather fast in addition you have to deal with COTA busses stopping all the time.

Have you tried Bryden/Oak? A boulevard or treatment as outlined in the BBP would provide the East-West connection with direct access to the trail head and would be suitable for all ranges of cyclists. It's a great corridor to bike, even without the special treatments.

Posted 1 year ago #
Columbusite
Minneapolis
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Please, no cycle track. We don't need to officiate improper, unsafe cycling practices. See this review on the one in St. Petersburg, FL. If sidewalk cyclists want to use it, that's fine as long as they're riding at speeds similar to pedestrians. Signage advising this should be done if this "pedestrian way" is going to cater to this niche of cyclists. Go any faster and they should be riding their vehicle on the road instead of endangering pedestrians and themselves.

Separated facilities are a myth and in fact add dangers that don't exist when riding properly whether it's current day Broad St or the new version it makes no difference. I've ridden numerous times without incident mostly Downtown and sometimes E Broad to Bexley and W Broad to Franklinton. I'm never in the path of right-turning vehicles and I'm never worried about the door zone because I'm properly centered in my lane. Well-signed and sharrowed right-hand lanes for bikes and buses is all that's needed for an optimal cycling environment which would instruct cyclists to use the entire right lane which prevents right-hook turns that have killed cyclists riding in bike lanes in other "progressive" cities and keeps them out of the door zone where poorly placed sharrows and bike lanes have resulted in more cyclist deaths. Basically, the treatment I'm suggesting is the same that Broad should already have. I see no need to remove parking in light of cyclists riding improperly in the door zone: there are plenty of extra lanes for motorists to choose from. Riding in the door zone is an education issue and perhaps the city could look into making a sign with two graphics to help: the left side showing an open car door and the cyclist riding safely in the neighboring traffic lane vs. the right side of the sign, a cyclist getting hit by a car door while riding in the door zone with a big red X on that graphic.

As for BRT, I think E Broad would be a good place for this since there's no urban business district that needs on-street parking. Most of it doesn't allow it anyway except for OTE where it's barely used and Downtown where it is used much more often. Regardless, the #10 route traverses E and W Broad and should have more shelters, maps, timetables and a raised curb at stops the main stops. Basically, make the stops real bus stops. The sheltered stop at W Broad & Civic Center has no map, timetables: nothing, not even a dispenser for paper maps/timetables for the routes that use this stop.

Posted 1 year ago #
alove
Downtown
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Blah blah blah

We want more transit options, right? What's wrong with expert cyclists riding on the road with a choice of riding on a SAFE, AWAY FROM CARS path?

I'm tired of hearing about the dangers of creating bike paths. We want our community to become more active, right? I doubt the way to get people to increase their bicycle use is to force them to ride down streets like High and Broad. I am scared shitless whenever I do so and I ride in the sidewalk when appropriate, and I am not ashamed either.

We need to be taking cues from Europe.

Posted 1 year ago #